tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post1501887695903808886..comments2024-02-25T08:16:25.546-08:00Comments on Exurban Nation: WWJD? (Who Would Jesus Deport)Rob Dawghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10042154106850545479noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-57133090994751697852007-06-03T09:50:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:50:00.000-07:00@ 8:15 AM, Anonymous:The American Dream you refer ...@ 8:15 AM, Anonymous:<BR/><BR/>The American Dream you refer to is just that, American. Is this a place where an immigrant can thrive? Absolutely, and it can be done within the bounds of our laws and generally requires a certain willingness to assimilate into our culture.<BR/><BR/>Our laws were written to protect Americans. Don't mistake the fact that we have been an historically generous nation to mean that we should be bound to indiscriminately afford the same rights and protections that we enjoy to anyone who is disenfranchised, disillusioned or impoverished. <BR/><BR/>To attempt to "level the field" is a slippery slope and would eventually make this a less desirable place to live for us and those who seek to come here to improve their lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-48124898001608071712007-06-03T09:36:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:36:00.000-07:00El Gabo, this is Greg Swann.El Gabo, this is <A HREF="http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?author=1" REL="nofollow">Greg Swann.</A>flailing forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029787271006871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-82386723984112871832007-06-03T09:21:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:21:00.000-07:00WORST INVESTMENT EVER?Anybody read the article on ...WORST INVESTMENT EVER?<BR/><BR/>Anybody read the article on yahoo right now? Looks like the MSM is changing their tune. Whichever way the wind blows, I guess.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/fool/070518/117951154741.html?.v=1&.pf=r" REL="nofollow"> WORST INVESTMENT EVER!</A>El Gringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916939401187240294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-53218276609818942012007-06-03T09:16:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:16:00.000-07:00@ anon 6:21I said trolling because you made a poin...@ anon 6:21<BR/>I said trolling because you made a point and then started with the "mexcrement" bullshit. All that does is inflame people and distract from what can be an interesting discussion. <BR/><BR/>@ anonalongadongadonga<BR/>You paint things in such ideal terms when we still had slavery about a 100 years after the Constitution was written and didn't give blacks the right to vote until almost 200 years later. Yes, the Constitution is a great document, but we've never lived up to the ideals in it. Your two extremes aren't mutually exclusive, in fact they're impossible. As Casey would say, reality is a gray area. We're a real nation with lots of real problems, and illegal immigration is one of them. <BR/><BR/>@ FMW<BR/>That bill sounds like the usual bureaucratic procedure of taking a big mess and making it into an even bigger one. Requiring immigrants to maintain employment is good going forward, but how would that apply to the ones here now illegally? There's an entire underground economy based on using their labor off the radar. Once they're legitimized, their wages have to go up, and demand for their labor will go down. The ones that then can't get jobs would get deported anyway under this plan.flailing forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029787271006871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-82244478718188708412007-06-03T09:14:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:14:00.000-07:00Addressing illegal immigration as an illegal act i...Addressing illegal immigration as an illegal act is preserving the American Dream not hindering it. <BR/><BR/>We are a nation laws not men. Does anyone object to park rangers telling you to stay out of the sensitive meadow habitat because too many would destroy the ecosystem? Dammit I want to go there and enjoy the pretty flowers and pick some if I want. It is public land not even private property.Rob Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10042154106850545479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-68159783988969987742007-06-03T09:01:00.000-07:002007-06-03T09:01:00.000-07:00@Casey FixRead the article about Crisp that is in ...@Casey Fix<BR/><BR/>Read the article about Crisp that is in this thread.... It's good. <BR/><BR/>And who is Greg Swan???El Gringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916939401187240294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-32873263023165818172007-06-03T08:42:00.000-07:002007-06-03T08:42:00.000-07:00I'm jonesing for a Casey fixI'm jonesing for a Casey fixAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-45663171004655802882007-06-03T08:25:00.000-07:002007-06-03T08:25:00.000-07:00@AnonAlongADongI desperately want the fairy tale o...@AnonAlongADong<BR/><BR/>I desperately want the fairy tale of America as a good country standing up for its ideals and am naively disappointed everytime we don't (and it is quite often we don't). If it can only be one system or the other, I would recommend going for the corrupt one because otherwise you will continously be blindsided by it. If you have a chance to survive in both, please stay with us in the fools brigade<BR/><BR/>Thanks, lurkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-83579063012590792582007-06-03T08:15:00.000-07:002007-06-03T08:15:00.000-07:00@ 6:03 anon "I betcha the Native Americans would h...<I>@ 6:03 anon "I betcha the Native Americans would have liked to deport all the first generation Europeans born in this country."<BR/><BR/><BR/>-I think you just made the case for the other team.</I><BR/><BR/>Right, I see what you're saying. <BR/><BR/>Well, tell me then, so I can understand for once and for all: <BR/><BR/>I was brought up indoctrinated with a number of principles that I thought was supposed to be intrinsic to the American value system, to the extent that many of them are actually enshrined in the Constitution. Principles regarding egalitarianism, equal rights, equal opportunity, a certain affinity for the downtrodden and the underdog, a chance for the disenfranchised to finally for once in history to have a decent go at it, etc. etc. <BR/><BR/>Tell me if this is valid or just a story that adults were making up to make themselves feel good (notwithstanding the irony since they basically stole the land from the Indians), and if we are truly a nation of laws founded on fairness or if, in contrast, it's all a matter of who you know and how powerful you are (which is the way most of the rest of the world works). <BR/><BR/>I would just like to know so that I can understand which system I'm working in going forward. It's confusing trying to straddle both of these mutually exclusive positions at one time. I can thrive in either system; I just don't want to be the only fool adhering to some pollyannish ideals that everyone elses mouths the words to but actually chuckles at as they do. <BR/><BR/>I'm painting with an extremely broad brush but this is indeed the dichotomy in a nutshell and speaks to many of the posts here.<BR/><BR/>Since there are many Anons here, you may refer to me as AnonAlongADong. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-38985374148673205552007-06-03T08:10:00.000-07:002007-06-03T08:10:00.000-07:00@ gringo,Yes, Mel is Cuban and just wrong.@ gringo,<BR/>Yes, Mel is Cuban and just wrong.FlyingMonkeyWarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770643973751363527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-29857373855611720472007-06-03T08:09:00.000-07:002007-06-03T08:09:00.000-07:00Mel is delusional if he thinks that this will brin...Mel is delusional if he thinks that this will bring to light the aliens that have evil intent. They will stay in the shadows.<BR/>The 'good' illegals will not be able to afford the so called fines and will also stay in the 'shadows', imo.<BR/>What a mess.<BR/><BR/>@ lurker,<BR/>I put together the Greg Swan Dive information as promised and sent it to Dawg as a courtesy. Too fuuny. I<BR/>Will post it around 9;oo pm e.s.t unless Dawg wants to do something else (thread?)<BR/>ltr, the sun and brunch pool side are calling me. (:FlyingMonkeyWarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770643973751363527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-37556982499486326062007-06-03T07:55:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:55:00.000-07:00The 2 problems I have with the bill.Temporary work...The 2 problems I have with the bill.<BR/><BR/>Temporary worker program. These people are not being brought in for temporary jobs. The only reason to use temporary workers is to keep wages low.<BR/><BR/>Going back to home country to pay a fine and wait in line. They aren't going to do it. <BR/><BR/>Things I like about the bill. <BR/><BR/>Increased border control. Even though I have doubts that this will be funded over the long term, it is a good idea.<BR/><BR/>point system for immigration. This is a more rational approach than our current mess.<BR/><BR/>Employment as a requirement for immigration. Most countries require it and it just makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-39929674372661090792007-06-03T07:46:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:46:00.000-07:00@Flying. Mel is just plain wrong. The illegal imm...@Flying. <BR/><BR/>Mel is just plain wrong. The illegal immigration problem isn't born out of our success, but Mexico's failure. He, as a Cuban, should be well aware of that relationship. <BR/><BR/>Any encouragement we give to illegal immigration is encouragement we give to Mexico's failed policies. Until we stop illegal immigration, Mexico will have no hope of pulling itself out of the hole it is in.El Gringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916939401187240294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-86458833506263097832007-06-03T07:42:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:42:00.000-07:00Just Posting a contrary View.FMW------------------...Just Posting a contrary View.<BR/>FMW<BR/>-------------------------<BR/><BR/><BR/>In defense of immigration bill<BR/><BR/>U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez | Special to the Sentinel<BR/>Posted June 3, 2007<BR/><BR/><BR/>Mel Martinez is a Republican United States Senator for Florida and the only immigrant currently serving in the Senate.<BR/><BR/>Immigration reform is very personal to me. As an immigrant to this great country, I am a product of the American Dream. I understand what it means to stand, raise your right hand, and swear allegiance to the United States. I respect the enormity of that commitment, our traditions, and our language. I know the value of not only learning English but more importantly learning and living the spirit of being an American. As Congress moves forward with reforming our nation's immigration laws, it is essential we remember the American spirit as part of our immigration discussion.<BR/><BR/>At its core, illegal immigration is a problem born of the success of our nation. The American Dream is a worldwide attraction, and many are willing to risk their lives to gather even a glimpse of it. We have a booming economy and a huge demand for all levels of labor. These realities plus our failed immigration policies and porous border have resulted in a 20-year flow of illegal immigration amounting to an estimated 12 million people. As lawmakers, it is not only our duty but our responsibility to address this problem. As a sovereign nation, we must arrive at a solution that satisfies the security of our borders.<BR/><BR/>First and foremost, the bill we are debating will make our border more secure. It calls for the completion of several specific border-security measures before any other aspect of the bill is implemented. Among the measures: The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) must have a total of 20,000 border security agents; build at least 370 miles of additional and strategic border fencing and 200 miles of vehicle barriers; must create and implement effective identification tools using biometric technologies to verify identity and employment eligibility. These measures must be met or else immigration reform will not move forward.<BR/><BR/>Our nation has record-low unemployment levels and the demand for all levels of labor remains consistently high. There are jobs for every willing American, but given the dynamic sustained growth of our economy, there still is a need for additional workers. This imbalance creates unsustainable pressure at our borders.<BR/><BR/>This is why, once certain border-security requirements are met, the bill institutes a temporary-worker program to provide the labor America desperately needs. Workers from other countries will have a clear understanding before coming here that they're coming to work for a limited period of time. Combined with the DHS identification verification system and steep sanctions against employers who hire unverified workers, the demand for undocumented workers will decrease dramatically.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the 12 million people who are here today illegally, this bill provides an opportunity for them to come out of the shadows and for the U.S. government to know who is in our country. It is imperative we find a fair and practical solution to this problem; it is vital to our society and our national security.<BR/><BR/>As a nation of immigrants, we must arrive at a humane policy that is aligned with the rule of law. Those who play by the rules are rewarded; those who break our laws will pay penalties. Under the Senate bill, illegal immigrants coming forward will be on probation; they will submit to a background check; they will agree to pay fines; they will prove employment and must maintain employment for as long as they wish to reside in our country. Failing to follow this course or failing any of the requirements will result in deportation.<BR/><BR/>Those coming forward must be law-abiding and contributing members of our society, and they will know they are our guests. For those individuals who pay fines, maintain employment, obey the law and learn English, they can have a path forward to stay here and continue to work. If they go back to their home country, they can then apply for permanent residence and go to the back of the line as any fair system would dictate.<BR/><BR/>For those concerned about the fiscal impact associated with border security and immigration reform, the Congressional Budget Office reported on May 23rd that the solution we have drafted "would result in a net increase in revenues of $70 billion to $75 billion over the 2008-2017 period."<BR/><BR/>To those who choose to ignore the problem, call any effort to address it "amnesty," or politicize potential solutions, I would say, provide a solution; provide an idea for securing the borders, bringing 12 million people out of the shadows, and answering the labor needs of our nation.<BR/><BR/>We, as Americans, must decide whether we want to live in a society where there is a permanent underclass of 12 million people hidden from the law, often paid less than living wages, and disenfranchised from our culture, or we can embrace the spirit that has made America so great and bring people out of the shadows, give them an opportunity to live within the law and become responsible, contributing members of our society. Those who choose humanity over divisive rhetoric will be rewarded with a country that is stronger, more productive and more enduring as we forge ahead in this great experiment of democracy.FlyingMonkeyWarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770643973751363527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-44973152169007054342007-06-03T07:36:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:36:00.000-07:00@ Dawg,I just sent you an e-mail with the informat...@ Dawg,<BR/>I just sent you an e-mail with the information about Greg Swan. Soooo funny, so just saying.FlyingMonkeyWarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770643973751363527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-25798733549851760502007-06-03T07:16:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:16:00.000-07:00The problem with "Anon" posts on a thread like thi...The problem with "Anon" posts on a thread like this is I can't figure out which "anon" is which, so don't know who to reply to. Are all the recent "Anon's" the same person?<BR/><BR/>There is certainly a cultural aspect to the illegal immigration fight. Mexico has never been our ally. They are virulently anti-American, with the exception of a small group of middle/upper class northerners (Mostly those from Monterrey.) <BR/><BR/>I fail to see the argument, however , that opponents of illegal immigration are racist. In fact, it's the proponents of illegal immigration that are most likely to be using race as a factor in their decision making. <BR/><BR/>Were we to choose immigrants based on their merits (rather than family ties) we would have lots of East-Indians, Asians and Europeans, but very few Latin Americans. So the current system favors one race over a myriad of others on the basis of proximity and, if you look at immigration proponents in CA, Race. <BR/><BR/>As Andres Oppenheimer points out in his latest column, if immigration were merit-based and color-blind, Latin Americans would be the biggest loosers and Asians, Indians, Euros would be the winners.El Gringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916939401187240294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-15024910275608925142007-06-03T07:15:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:15:00.000-07:00@anonymousTo refute your argument, we imported Iri...@anonymous<BR/><BR/>To refute your argument, we imported Irish, Swedes, Italians, and Hispanics and they have all assimilated within a couple of generations. The Hispanics that have not assimilated are 1st generationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-5977529043738380202007-06-03T07:11:00.001-07:002007-06-03T07:11:00.001-07:00@AnonymousHow can one expect to have a real discus...@Anonymous<BR/><BR/>How can one expect to have a real discussion with someone who's education stopped at the 3rd grsde?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-7484876417780752872007-06-03T07:11:00.000-07:002007-06-03T07:11:00.000-07:00The discussion itself is not racist. However, dis...The discussion itself is not racist. However, discussions like this tend to draw racists. Do you get labeled a racist if a racist agrees with you. No more than you would be labeled a fraudster if Casey agreed with you. <BR/><BR/>The difficult part is the racists are as impervious to facts and logic as Casey isAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-47249950553296079352007-06-03T06:45:00.000-07:002007-06-03T06:45:00.000-07:00@ flailing forwardIts trolling when I lay out the ...@ flailing forward<BR/><BR/>Its trolling when I lay out the plain ugly facts of the matter? If you can't get past the "racism" complex that society has drilled into you since birth, you can never have a real discussion on the immigration issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-6534275152796704572007-06-03T06:42:00.000-07:002007-06-03T06:42:00.000-07:00What I hate about discussing issues with a racial ...What I hate about discussing issues with a racial component like immigration, welfare, public housing, etc. is that not only do you immediately get pegged as a racist if you take a position not beneficial to whatever minority is being benefitted, but the actual racists like anon 6:17 immediately think you're on their team. We're not.flailing forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029787271006871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-35088136408037661442007-06-03T06:23:00.001-07:002007-06-03T06:23:00.001-07:00Rob Dawg - The comment AT 6:17 is WAAYYYoverboard....Rob Dawg - <BR/><BR/>The comment AT 6:17 is WAAYYY<BR/>overboard. This isn't Camp Idiot, for god's sake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-32981283793155018542007-06-03T06:23:00.000-07:002007-06-03T06:23:00.000-07:00@ anon 6:17I realize you're just trolling, but wha...@ anon 6:17<BR/>I realize you're just trolling, but what's the point of your last two sentences other than to discredit any point you were trying to make?flailing forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029787271006871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-17480616644119258282007-06-03T06:19:00.000-07:002007-06-03T06:19:00.000-07:00@ El GaboThat's interesting that she had been depo...@ El Gabo<BR/>That's interesting that she had been deported once before. I guess it shows how this whole discussion is moot. Even if she gets deported again, she'll be back within a year.<BR/><BR/>@ anon 6:01<BR/>Regardless of whether you think this discussion is racist (I don't think it is), it's an interesting one. There's only so much housing and transportation news I can take. It's good to hear views on other topics sometimes. If you think we're a bunch of racist assholes, then say why. Otherwise you aren't adding much. I've still got a semi-open mind on immigration stuff. I can be persuaded to see the error in my views.<BR/><BR/>If an American couple is in Mexico on a work visa and has a child, they don't get to stay in Mexico after the visa expires simply because their child is a Mexican citizen. And Mexico isn't going to forbid them from taking the child back to the US either. Why is this any different?flailing forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029787271006871531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7514357.post-66994292815531888202007-06-03T06:17:00.000-07:002007-06-03T06:17:00.000-07:00Importing a ethnically distinct, servile underclas...Importing a ethnically distinct, servile underclass is always a horrible idea (blacks into America, hindus into Sri Lanka, Turks into Germany) that ends badly for both the servants and the masters. Very high costs for temporary cheap labour. Look at how far the nigger underclass has held back America. And people want to bring in a mexcrement underclass on top of it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com