Sunday, January 18, 2009

All Your Thermostats Are Belonging to We

Welcome 21st Century. When you hear "smart grid" you need to start thinking socialized power. Rather than build capacity you'll hear about smarter uses of the electricity we already produce. By "smarter" the government means they know better what temperature your home should be than you do.

127 comments:

Lou Minatti said...

What if it saves me a few bucks?

It's a moot point anyway. The energy bubble has burst. The next energy bubble our kids will have to deal with.

Oh yeah. First.

sk said...

Got a link where I can look that up ? I did wonder what the heck a "smart grid" was - all that crap from the huckster politicos didn't give me a clue - any techie details somewhere ? Yeah I can google it and I will but still any links you provide will help too.

-K

sk said...

Alright I found something official from the DOE:
http://www.oe.energy.gov/DocumentsandMedia/DOE_SG_Book_Single_Pages.pdf

Jeez, freakin' vaporware ! Man, I hated that shit when I was doing it and I STILL hate it.

You are absolutely right - privacy concerns HAVE to be addressed at the baseline level - I'll have to see what the EFF says about this.

Keep posting, Rob - not everybody has awareness of this crap - when I turned on, tuned in and dropped out 2 years ago it was just to make money.

But I definitely want to protect my privacy - or as the flatstone in Forest Lawns cemetery has it:

"I want to be a lawn"

-K

Steven Kesler said...

We already have something similar here in New Zealand: ripple switches. The water heater is connected to this device (part of our Smart Meter) which can be turned on and off by the electric company (via a "ripple" or signal through the power lines) to reduce loads, ie., the powers that be can turn off our water heaters at their discretion.

Rob Dawg said...

But I definitely want to protect my privacy - or as the flatstone in Forest Lawns cemetery has it:

"I want to be a lawn"


I have never as long as I've been old enough to fully understand the issues ever understood "meat sack" issues. Okay, eating human flesh is off limits but only because it is a disease vector of the first order. Put the damn used shell in the freakin garden. Burn it and fertilize. I don't care and just don't see anything about disrespect or wishes or whatever.

sk,
Thanks. I don't get much in the way of support and unless you blog it is hard to understand that it does weigh. A little encouragement goes a long way.

TC said...

At FPL we get a credit for allowing the utility to regulate usage on certain inhome appliances...The user chooses which appliances and the credit reflects these choices...

JP said...

Now everybody don't get all '1984' on me now, this is actually a pretty good idea. I used to work for an electric utility, and it costs them $$$$ to be able to meet the peak demand periods, two per day, morning and after work. The rest of the day, demand is way lower and it can be met by base-load power plants that are on 24/7.

If you can shave your load peaks by reducing non-essential energy use on a rotating basis for a few minutes per household (your A/C or dishwasher won't care if it's off for a few minutes and you probably won't even notice), you can save a LOT of money (and burn a lot less natural gas, which is typically used to run the peaking plants used for load shaving).

Alan Cocconi (inventor of the Tzero EV) has another excellent idea for using electric cars to shave the peak loads. If you have a distributed network of EVs plugged into the grid (for charging) with bi-directional power transfer capability, you can pull a certain percentage of battery capacity out (a minimal, programmable amount that will still allow you to drive home if you're plugged in while at work) and put (possibly even sell) that energy back into the grid.

There are lots of cool ways to do this same thing (peak load shaving), and we are just beginning to scratch the surface (and we need to). The days of a surplus capacity in the electrical grid are coming to an end and in some cases we're already on the ragged edge of system stability. Barring new infrastructure which we seem unwilling to invest in, we need to use what we have now in a more efficient way.

Dave said...

Long time lurker...

Of course, this makes the assumption that sensors can't be manipulated.

For instance, I was taking a seminar at a conference center that had some brain-dead policy of 78° for each area. Of course, they also provided a handy overhead projector in each room (yes, it's that long ago). You can see where this is going.

Needless to say, the sensor ended up showing the room at 140° as we bathed in cool comfort.

My prediction, if this comes to fruition, is that late night TV will be filled with commercials from Billy Rae for the Comfortizer™

[For those who are too young to remember -- overhead projectors had a transparent top with a bright light underneath, and a lens configuration to direct the light to a screen. Bright lights = large heat]

sk said...

Rob Dawg said...
...

"I want to be a lawn"

I have never as long as I've been old enough to fully understand the issues ever understood "meat sack" issues.
...

OT, FYI and to clarify( overexplain?)
Nice riff on what I said - my comment was in relation to privacy and referring to Greta Garbo and her comment
"I want to be alone"
which resulted in the epitaph on her flatstone at Forest Lawns as "I want to be a lawn"..

Well you get the picture.

Yeah I know she was cremated, and currently resides in Woodland Cemetery, Sweden( I googled it ) but we can't let facts get in the way of a good line.

-K

Kasey Skala said...

You may have touched on this before Rob, but what are your thoughts on the CA Controller cutting off tax refunds, etc.?

TC said...

The idea of the two-way grid going mainstream is exciting I think. This looks to be emerging trend.

I've often wondered, while passing various gyms in the evening, that someone ought to harvest all that "spinning" energy.

Edgar Alpo said...

I can fix that with a hammer and screwdriver. bwa ah ah

H Simpson said...

It's Nukes folks.
all the power you want.
What we need is to research how to reuse the waste for fussion.
Those electric cars still need power and traditional power plants toss up a lot of green house gases.

As for power nazis/kgb, my brother tells me the story of the local electric company that supplied usage figures to the town for their low income housing even though the residents were paying their own tab.

They saw a high usage at one unit
so they saddled up the local SWAT team to hit the joint under the assumption that the amount of current being used had to be for grow lights to harvest pot.

they kick in the door to find a 70 something chinese immigrant doing everyone's ironing in area for some extra scratch.

and for Dawg, the John Hancock Tower in Boston (Known internationally as the joint that proved the wind between high structures can be more larger than actual windspeed) has gone bankrupt.

http://www.reitwrecks.com/2009/01/bostons-hancock-tower-goes-into-default

CRE crashing hits Boston big time.

Bill in NC said...

It's not just delaying tax refunds.

CA won't be cutting transfer payment (welfare) checks after February 1st!

Wonder how that'll be received?

Will the banks honor the "IOUs" this time around?

w said...

Now CA politicians are floating the idea of a ballot initiative to raise taxes. Imagine - the general populace will be able to vote themselves someone elses piece of the pie.

As for Nuclear power, I am under the impression that there is a huge limitation as to how much fuel there is available to run these reactors. Somehow I do not think it is as easy as mining iron.

Akira said...

It is healthy to adjust and adapt to cold weatber.

Jean ValJean said...

But I won't have to.

Al Gore told me so.

w said...

So if Obama gets assassinated today do we get a 4 day weekend from now on?

w said...

Akira, I am already highly adapted to cold wheat beer.

Rob Dawg said...

Akira, I am already highly adapted to cold wheat beer.

That and cold unripened avocado soup...

Property Flopper said...

Ugh. I looked at the pic for the last post (overhead shot of cars) and saw a printed circuit board. I REALLY need to get out more.

Rob - can you post some nice eye candy. Doesn't even have to be topical.

Northern Renter said...

Congratulations to all you folks in the States on your orderly transition of power.

Godspeed you black emperor!

NR

Jean ValJean said...

@NR: Thank you.

And please don't mock "The One".

1.44MB said...

And congratulations Rob on the stunning victory over at bubbleinfo!

What was your reasoning behind the successful call? (I'm assuming it wasn't just pulled from a walrus' a$$ at random)

Property Flopper said...

DOW under 8k. Any guesses as to where it ends the day?

Northern Renter said...

Dear JvJ,

No mocking intended. He's got my support, for what that might be worth.

NR

cajed said...

@w
not even funny and i shot people for a living (us govt approved).

Go "F" yourself with your own dowble digits deep - you know where.
cadejd

cajed said...

Rob
I paid CA taxes for 25 years while I was "fighting the war on terror" becasue my HOR was Sacto.
I think i've earned the right to bitch out idiot statements such ss "w' made.
Never came back to the state. I saw it was a crapper in 95.

Lurker here since IAFF.
Someone go poke CS with a stick.

And , yeah, no one on CR cares what predications you made in the past, what you buy your daughter or what your scars look like.(Everyone gets old and shit happens.) If you really gave a shit about Tanta's spirit I think you would try to post more thoughtfully - less obliquely, snarkily and quit going for the cheap shot.


Also, still waiting for many of the posts you said you would follow up on here on your own blog.

A final very positive note...
your taste in eye candy is superb... especially Januarys.
Regards,
ur fiend, c.adejd.

Mr. Outspoken said...

What the hell happenned? Didn't Wall Street realize today was the inauguration? Obama promised me instant gratification. He held my hand, looked me in the eye and said "On 1/20/09 your stock holdings will fully recover." Verbatim! The man lied to me!

Lou Minatti said...

Obama promised me instant gratification.

Jamba Juice and Macaroni Grill are still open. Just charge it, and voila, instant gratification.

Rob Dawg said...

Obama is most definitely flashing the credit card. Props however for a brief speech.

Akubi said...

Yeah, I really miss not having a president with the IQ of a (pet) goat any longer.
NOT!!!

w said...

Why is it not considered a stimulus if I get my taxes lowered and I can go spend the money or loan it to a bank? Is it because I am not a government contractor?

Akubi, is that subliminal irony since we have the son of a goat herder as president?

Just to be clear, I fully support Obama in his efforts to keep taxes low, cut the deficit, reduce government benefits, keep America safe, strengthen the military and reduce meaningless paperwork.

The wingnuts calling for trials of Bush staffers, suggesting that white people restrain themselves, calling for a draft and national service, and generally assailing the virtue of restraint need to be shut in the basement of the DNC if the press will not call them out.

w said...

Rob, that sound you hear in Oxnard is bazillions of spores crying out with their last breath.

Centipede said...

Cold wheat beer is Awesome!

Lost Cause said...

The place of Aesop's birth was and still is disputed: Amorium, Phrygia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Samos, Athens, Sardis and Thrace all claimed the honor. It has been argued by modern writers that he may have been of African origin: the scholar Richard Lobban has argued that his name is likely derived from "Aethiopian", a word used by the Greeks to refer mostly to dark-skinned people of the African interior. He continues by pointing out that the stories are populated by animals present in Africa, many of the creatures being quite foreign to Greece and Europe.[1]

[...]

The life of Aesop himself is shrouded in obscurity. He is said to have lived as a slave in Samos around 550 B.C. An ancient account of his life is found in The Book of Xanthus the Philosopher and His Slave Aesop.

According to the sparse information gathered about him from references to him in several Greek works (he was mentioned by Aristophanes, Plato, Xenophon and Aristotle), Aesop was a slave for someone called Xanthus (Ξανθος), who resided on the island of Samos. Aesop must have been freed, for he conducted the public defense of a certain Samian demagogue (Aristotle, Rhetoric, ii. 20). He subsequently lived at the court of Croesus, where he met Solon, and dined in the company of the Seven Sages of Greece with Periander at Corinth. During the reign of Peisistratus he was said to have visited Athens, where he told the fable of The Frogs Who Desired a King to dissuade the citizens from attempting to depose Peisistratus for another ruler. A contrary story, however, said that Aesop spoke up for the common people against tyranny through his fables, which incensed Peisistratus, who was against free speech.

Centipede said...

What's up with this Ancient Greek shit?

Old said...

w said...
The wingnuts calling for trials of Bush staffers, suggesting that white people restrain themselves, calling for a draft and national service, and generally assailing the virtue of restraint need to be shut in the basement of the DNC if the press will not call them out.

War crimes are war crimes no matter who commits them, and should be prosecuted for many reasons, but here is one that even a Bircher can appreciate. It will make the nation stronger.

Guess what Birchers and Bilgemen, the world didn't end today, Barack Hussein Obama is president, and a Bush appointee had one job to do during the inauguration and could not recite 35 words in the correct order. Fitting really.

How's Casey Serin? In jail yet?

H Simpson said...

So Old, you ready to have trials for Trueman using the A-bomb when everyone knows the Japanese were weeks away from starving to death because of the embargo the Navy had around the country? Historians know he just wanted to show Stalin his new weapon.

How about JFK and Johnson for incursions into Vietnam? They never attacked us. Never even called us a bad name. From wiki:


58, 169 Americans killed (11, 465 were teenagers).
304,000 Americans wounded.
444, 000 North Vietnamese killed.
220, 557 South Vietnamese (this is not precise as the Vietnamese took away their dead.
587, 00 civilians killed.

20 TIMES Iraq statistics.

Slippery slope and black kettle etc.




The same people who call for such tripe are to same pussies who never served. have never been in the line of fire.


Cannot wait for the first country to take a shot at the US of A and see how Obama and Hillary the master statesperson deals with it.

Rather than looking for validation of conspiracy theories, I would suggest you put time to figuring out how to fix things, else your party is going to blow their first shot running things in 8 years.

H Simpson said...

Oh, I missed the last sentence
After that shot, there will be a backlash that will make Newt and Regan movement of the 80s look like flash in the pan.

the environmental similiaries between Obama and Carter are scary.
Right down to the bad economy, and Iran being a pia.

Peripheral Visionary said...

To the original post, the liberty concerns of the "smart grid" are indeed worrying. I strongly suspect that this will not be the last Good Idea whose limitations are dismissed because It's An Emergency and Something Needs To Be Done, etc. While I'm not going to get hysterical over electrical monitoring (they already monitor consumption after all, this is just the next step), I do think it is appropriate to have these discussions on what is enough and what is too much.

Property Flopper said...

PV -

In the midst of talk of war crime trials, politics and wingnuts, you go and get back on topic? Just where do you think you are? :)

Captain Nemo said...

@JP:

The problem with peak loading is that consumers have little economic incentive to change their habits. In the UK, one can sign up for a plan in which electricity used off-peak is charged at a much lower rate than normal daytime rates.

Because of this, people have dishwashers and clothes washers that have delay timers built-in -- allowing consumers to easily run them at night -- and save money.

People have stored energy heaters -- a heater that has a large mass that is heated at night and then the heat is extracted from this mass and used to heat the house during the day.

The impact of turning off a few appliances for a few minutes during peak load times is far less than the impact of getting a significant proportion of the population to run their dishwashers at night.

Peripheral Visionary said...

Just noticed this article, from Marketwatch:

California may delay tax refunds

"Facing a severe cash crunch, California may delay sending out tax refunds, aid to needy residents, money for some state services and payments to businesses, the state's controller said Friday."

Tax refunds delayed? People count on those . . . And no welfare checks going out? This could get ugly . . .

Peripheral Visionary said...

w, my impression is that the earth's estimated fission material supply is quite extensive; enough that a switch to global nuclear (fission) power is a viable alternative. The main issues are over storage of waste and nuclear materials "falling off the back of the truck" and ending up being used for other purposes.

My own view is that the anti-nuclear power lobby has successfully transformed what should be a clean and reliable source of power into a monster of mythical proportions by fearmongering and taking advantage of the general public's ignorance of all things subatomic, specifically by intentionally conflating nuclear power with nuclear weapons (more or less the same thing as equating gasoline with napalm.) But what do I know, I only have a degree in physics.

wagga said...

Is Thorium the silver bullet?

We use the nuclear technology that we have because it could be made to yield weapons-grade Plutonium.

The Thorium cycle can use existing nuclear waste to kick-start the process.

A 1MW coal-burner kicks out about 10 times as much potential energy as Thorium in the fly ash than it makes.

Edgar Alpo said...

Congress should work without pay or pension. They have aided and abetted the looting of America. Let them live off the graft they crave. Pass it on.

bohica said...

OT, but Goldspring is at 0.0156 today.
Talk about fortunes going into ether.............

Monica said...

Why not ban dishwashers, which I never had, except when my parents did and I was living there, as well as air conditioning, which I dislike so much that I made sure my apartment does NOT have air conditioning and I covered the vents with scotch tape in my office?

w said...

Very cool mini nuclear reactors

Lou Minatti said...

Congress should work without pay or pension. They have aided and abetted the looting of America.

They need to get paid, but I agree with you that they shouldn't be getting any pensions. Their medical insurance should be tied to what the average worker gets.

Old said...

H Simpson said...

So Old, you ready to have trials for Trueman using the A-bomb when everyone knows the Japanese were weeks away from starving to death because of the embargo the Navy had around the country? Historians know he just wanted to show Stalin his new weapon.

The mistake you make, besides misspelling Truman, is that dropping the bombs on Japan were not war crimes, Japan had not surrendered, whereas waterboarding people is a war crime.

H Simpson said...
The same people who call for such tripe are to same pussies who never served. have never been in the line of fire.

Ah, the internet tough guy angle. I'll be sure to correct those articles wikipedia to say that all those war crimes trials that were conducted after World War II where torturers were hung for waterboarding our soldiers. It never happened because some internet tough guy who calls himself after a cartoon character said it didn't happen.

H Simpson said...
How about JFK and Johnson for incursions into Vietnam? They never attacked us. Never even called us a bad name.

Yes, putting dead men on trial for what you think are war crimes, is the exact same, as putting living people on trial for ordering torture and for torturing people. Yes, it is exactly the same.

H Simpson said...

After that shot, there will be a backlash that will make Newt and Regan movement of the 80s look like flash in the pan.

the environmental similiaries between Obama and Carter are scary.
Right down to the bad economy, and Iran being a pia.


You don't know of which you type.

Centipede said...

In the midst of talk of war crime trials, politics and wingnuts, you go and get back on topic? Just where do you think you are? :)

The entirely random comments on this blog keeps it interesting.

w said...

Old is a lousy debater.

He rightly says that dropping the bomb on Japan is not a war crime because they had not surrendered. Looking at actions in war from this type of legal perspective is important. Since the terrorists in GITMO are not soldiers for a nation who would have signed on to the Geneva convention they do not have a soldiers rights. Better yet Old, why don't you call for these terrorists to be tried for war crimes? They certainly do not follow the Geneva convention.

As for saying that putting dead men on trial is not the same as trying live ones that is mind bogglingly stupid. Obviously, the point was that they should have been tried back in the day, but of course that would be ludicrous. Only wingnuts go calling for presidents to be tried for war crimes.

I am sure that Old was equally upset when Clinton was slinging missiles into third world nations.

I agree with Simpson that the backlash to this Liberal era will be forthcoming. How Democrats let the election be so close with such a lame Republican ticket, and following such a difficult economic and military period and with so much cheer leading from the media is a good indicator by itself.

As a tribute to the intense ridicule every prominent conservative is put to I suggest that Obama must have the IQ of an orangutan since he cannot recite a simple oath. Since context and facts never matter there can be no argument as to why he messed up. He is just a fucking retard. Let's spray paint nasty things about him in public places and question his intelligence. Pass the weed bro, I'm gonna get lit and sleep in tomorrow since there are no good jobs out there anyway so Obama should just give me somebody else's piece of the pie.

I hope I did not mispel somthing.

Centipede said...

Who cares.
Bush is gone and I have a hot 3-some in the works.

Monica said...

The right spelling is trisomy.

Centipede said...

As far as porn is concerned I think this was pretty awesome (even though asshat Conservative Catholic altar boy "leader" flubbed his words yesterday): Supreme Court deals death blow to antiporn law.
SWEET!!!

Old said...

w said...
Since the terrorists in GITMO are not soldiers for a nation who would have signed on to the Geneva convention they do not have a soldiers rights. Better yet Old, why don't you call for these terrorists to be tried for war crimes? They certainly do not follow the Geneva convention.

Terrorists are not war criminals. Terrorists should be dealt with the same way Timothy McVeigh was dealt with, a fair trial, then when appeals are exhausted, sentence carried out. And that sentence should be the death penalty. If you don't know the difference between a terrorist, and a soldier, that is your problem. If in a post about a persons privacy rights because their electricity use is going to be controlled by the state, and a President who authorized torture and the eavesdropping on all Americans, then that is your problem as well.

Centipede said...

FREE Gizmo and Gaza NOW!
Woohoo!
Woohoo!
Woohoo!

Centipede said...

"Terrorists" are generally freedom fighters.

Centipede said...

Relax.
Itsallgood now. I'm going to sleep.

Property Flopper said...

The problem with Gitmo / detainees is that the Bush Admin wanted to have it all.

They kept defining them in terms of what they were NOT. They were not soldiers, so we didn't have to treat them as POW's. They were not civilians (they're also covered - 4th Geneva Convention).

Terrorists? Well, they couldn't be held in the US, because then they'd have rights under the Consitution...

Basically, no matter where they fall, at some point the US screwed up and violated either US or international law. The trick was always keeping the dance going so it couldn't be pinned down WHICH law was violated.

I'm glad to see that Obama has moved quickly to deal with this. It was doing a great deal of harm to the image of the US abroad - how can we claim to be defenders of people's rights when we've got Gitmo going on?

Fighters captured in combat operations should have been treated as POW's or turned over to local authorities. People held for plotting terror activities should have been either handed over to locals or brought into the US court system and handled.

The whole idea of keeping them outside of all laws is just awful.

w said...

A nice well thought out opinion. No personal attacks and no pointless political banter.
Thanks PF.

The idea of the government or utilities managing our power usage in our homes is problematic because it will allow for meddling by beaureaucrats. I don't really worry about nefarious sci-fi government control because the government is inept. It is the idea of the government making decisions for me that I do not like. A market mechanism like Nemo suggests is so much better and would actually motivate me a lot more.

wagga said...

Government bureaucrats can reach into your home & listen in on your phone if they can get a judge to agree.

What if the Gov. decides those polygamists are in bad odor & turn off all the appliances for all of them? Or Scientologists? or even Catholics - surely not extreme right-wing evangelistic Christians!

Property Flopper said...

"A nice well thought out opinion."

Well, that can't be right. Must be someone else publishing under my name... or a lapse in (lack of) judgment. Not sure... I'll try to stick to unsupported innuendo and personal attacks in the future. :)

wagga said...

Just-in-time irony.

Seaplane Pilots Association Honors Flight 1549 Pilot Sullenberger

Pleather Murse said...

"The Stimulus: How to Create Jobs Without Them All Going to Skilled Professionals and White Male Construction Workers" Robert Reich
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/01/stimulus-how-to-create-jobs-without.html

w said...

Wow, I am sure that Robert Reich is equally upset that so many powerful jobs in finance go to Jews. How can we get more Muslims and Mormons into good banking and treasury department jobs?

Monica said...

Good Muslims are not supposed to work in institutions that charge interest. I'm not saying that some people who call themselves Muslim don't, but they are not supposed to. It is true that there is a loophole: Muslims can get inappropriate jobs out of necessity, although they should try to get more appropriate jobs as soon as possible, and, if possible, while it lasts, not to be very involved, if at all, in the part of their employer's activities that is inappropriate. For instance, while they should not serve alcohol, maybe, if they have to, they can be cooks for a restaurant that is serving alcohol.

Peripheral Visionary said...

"White male construction workers"? Reich is living on a different planet.

w said...

I have hired several construction workers. A couple were white and a couple were not. The thing is they all were licensed and skilled. I never hired the cheaper unlicensed folks because of the risks (lack of recourse, lack of insurance, poor english). What Reich should really focus on is the folks who float just below the professional labor in this country and keep wages down by not following the law. These folks should be encouraged to professionalize themselves, pay taxes and insurance, and if not then they should work for someone who is taking care of this for them. When someone I know is bragging about making 60k a year cash landscaping (tax free!), while his illegitamit kid is on every government program I wonder why the academics always want to take things out on the people who follow the rules. Or the people I know who work under an assumed identity and collect their benefits under their legal name. The more government programs there are the more graft there will be. That is why tax relief is the bst stimulus there is. It rewards the people who follow the rules and encourages people to work even harder.

Peripheral Visionary said...

Any Rob sightings? I get a bit worried when this blog goes quiet for a few days . . .

Captain Nemo said...

Did anyone see
this -- Millionaire widow becomes cleaner after losing fortune in Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme?

Should we feel sorry for the (now) poor woman? She was attempting to make money through arbitrage -- borrowing against her house to invest with Madoff.

IMHO, it's just more greed by a (moderately) wealthy person.

Lou Minatti said...

Rob's OK. He's skiing at Mammoth. I saw him commenting about it on CR.

Pleather Murse said...

There's only one cure for a collapsed Ponzi scheme ... a new Ponzi scheme.

Pleather Murse said...

Just checked latimes.com ... CA's unemployment rate is now 9.3%, LA county is 9.9%.

Rob Dawg said...

Rob's OK. He's skiing at Mammoth. I saw him commenting about it on CR.

Doing great, skied 5hrs, no problems. Getting new post up after dinner. Cooking the salmon right now.

Akubi said...

After losing her trust fund to Madoff Fraudmonster #2759 Muriel is forced to wear fishnet stockings on Nuclear Tentacles for some sort of Fishnet Friday Fiesta.

Tor Hershman said...

Here's a vid of the government gettin' involved, old skool style - REALLY OLD SCHOOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7iQRFP_e90

Old said...

Akubi,

You have a knack.

Check this out: http://oldnumberseven.tumblr.com/

Peripheral Visionary said...

Meanwhile . . .

(Local kids gather around blog lying prone on the ground)

Is it dead?

I don't know.

I don't think so.

Maybe it's just sleeping.

Maybe it passed out.

I think it's dead.

Poke it!

(Kid picks up stick)

Poke it!

See if it's alive.

No, don't poke it!

Yes, poke it!

Should I poke it?

No!

Yes!

What if it's dead?

I don't think it's dead.

Poke it!

NO!

Yes, poke it, see if it's alive!

(Kid gingerly pokes blog with stick)

Property Flopper said...

OK - Question for y'all. I keep seeing in the paper towns everywhere are on the verge of bankruptcy. In each case, they lay the blame on the housing bust - they keep saying "property tax revenue has gone down".

OK - Prices (and taxes) are back to about 2004 level. That's just a few years. How were they able to be fiscally happy and healthy with the money then, but just a few short years later, that much leads to bankruptcy?

More rhetorical than anything else, but good God... couldn't they think of a better excuse?

w said...

Imagine how many homes turned over to new buyers in the last 5 years that now have property tax bases at least double what they were 10 years ago. I still see houses selling for >500k that were ~250k 10 years ago and ~750k 3 years ago. And the city (Ventura) is talking about cuts. Maybe it is really the benefits they are providing that are killing them demographically.

Peripheral Visionary said...

They weren't "fiscally happy and healthy", they were running big deficits--even with their revenue running at record high levels! Yes, while the housing bubble delivered property taxes bigger than anyone had planned for or even thought possible, they blew through all of that extra revenue and more, believing the property price appreciation would never end.

That's why I'm flat-out against Federal assistance for the cities and states. They spent their way into this hole, they can tax and save their way out. Giving them Federal money will only give the spending junkies money for a few more fixes before they inevitably come back to the Federal government looking for more.

Akira said...

Thoughts on Iceland's collapse...?

Property Flopper said...

> Thoughts on Iceland's collapse...?

They were stupid and highly leveraged in toxic investments.

Pleather Murse said...

> Thoughts on Iceland's collapse...?

All that geothermal energy underground finally blew up?

Property Flopper said...

> Thoughts on Iceland's collapse...?

They should have invested in fishnets. That way, when it all came down, the "underlying assets" are still something nice. :)

Peripheral Visionary said...

Iceland's problem was that it built its economy on the unsustainable financial excesses of the credit bubble. But that is further compounded by its socialist government programs, which are a gigantic fixed expense against a variable revenue stream. Actually, it's worse than that, as social programs cost *more* as government revenue goes down, which means that their government is facing full collapse.

Even some of the most cool-headed observers are predicting that Iceland as it once was is now finished. They have a couple of cash industries, fishing and tourism, which will bring in a little bit of hard cash, but not enough to support their current economy. Net result will be massive out-migration (I've heard predictions that most of their population will leave) and a nation which was a shell of what it once was. The social programs will have to be dramatically scaled back or scrapped altogether; but they can take comfort that they likely will not be the last nation to have to make that adjustment.

Akira said...

Fish, but no fishnets. What were they thinking?!
Absurd/annoying blog find of the day: Dating A Banker Anonymous

MaxedOutMama said...

Thx for Rob update. He should tell us before we get all scared and screw up the economy even more.

Pleather Murse said...

Saving Iceland ... two thoughts

1 Casinos
2 Tax Shelter / corporate haven

Neither require much in the way of natural resources.

Akubi said...

Who would bother dating a banker in Iceland anyway?

How about auctioning Björk in fishnets with a large designer duck shawl? She'd do way better than that "Women's Studies Virgin(tm)". Last I heard, she's doing her best to save Iceland.

Lou Minatti said...

Who would bother dating a banker in Iceland anyway?
There are some smokin' hot Icelandic babes, but they all smell like fish. And I don't mean, well...

Nevermind.

Akubi said...

As long as Björk isn't wearing that godawful dead duck tutu, I'd do her...And highly doubt that she smells like stinky fish.

Akubi said...

Hi Old,
I've been rather behind on my feeds, but this chick is hot - where did you find her?
She reminds me of this girl in my freshman U bunker who was into a bunch of Women's Studies crap,(but liked my python and hearing what I had to say about Nietzsche and such)yet became an attorney like the rest of them.
Oh, well..Thank God I couldn't figure out the LSAT.

Peripheral Visionary said...

Re: Saving Iceland:

1. Legalized gambling is about to make a big resurgence; local governments here in the U.S. in particular really need the cash, and I suspect a lot of gambling laws are about to get loosened up quite dramatically. Indian casinos and offshore gambling havens will likely suffer as a result.

2. Offshore banking was what got Iceland into trouble in the first place. But even so, offshore banking is also likely to suffer as countries begin seriously considering capital flow restrictions; there are already rumblings of capital flow restrictions in Europe to protect countries that are at risk (Spain, Ireland, Italy.)

In short, no easy answers for Iceland. Fishing, tourism, their fledgling software industry, that's about it, and it's not enough to support the island as-is. Extremely difficult decisions to be made, no two ways about it.

w said...

Iceland should become a labratory for free market policies. Maybe no income taxes, only a consumption/sales tax. Since it is so small maybe it should have a government medical system but you opt in at different levels depending on what you pay in.

H Simpson said...

Any truth to rumors that Dawg's ski trip was nothing but a smoke screen, and he is in fact in Australia with KC where they will start a blog/book deal on how to get sweet cashback on TARP funds meant for US banks and/or companies that want to be banks? ;>) ;>)


h.

Property Flopper said...

100th!!!

Ok, not a "first", but still a milestone.

Sweet Cashback said...

One Hundred and MURST biatches !

Casey Serin said...

Way to update your blog, Walrus. :-p

How was your salmon dinner the other night? Did the trainer at the side of the pool feed you by hand? ;-)

w said...

Akubi, that chick is very hot, because she's HOT-BLOODED check it and see, I got a fever of 103!

Lou Minatti said...

Rob, I am getting ready to toss a hand grenade. :-)

Lou Minatti said...

It's been tossed. I respect your opinions and think you're a good guy, Rob. But sometimes you need to take off those Golden State blinders. :-)

Akira said...

@w,
Well, yes, but I'd like to see some *high res* pictures like my frequently banned artistic nude blogs - so much high res, Blogger made me use a new account.
H/t Wagga for the best, aesthetic finds!
Hot Safeway Delivery Dude has a completely different taste in pr0n. I nearly vomit and feel insulted looking at his shit – well at least we weren’t arguing about the Bush Admin, et al.
He’s keen on having me set him up with some pleasantly plump friends of mine. That’s just weird. I'll try anything once, but I've been there, done that and do not think it's hot. Nonetheless, I do prefer arguing about pornography over politics.

Akira said...

I showed HSDD my vast collection of high res nudes and he wasn't into any of it - "too anorexic, young, fake etc". Well he seemed rather into that sort of thing the weekend before last - yes, for once we could agree on a hot babe.
Oh, HSDD also agrees that Luba has very nice tits.

Akira said...

As Dawg pleases himself with the many comments on this blog post,
I shall continue shameless self-promotion for no reason whatsover- except Nuclear Tentacles.

Property Flopper said...

So Rob -

If you're going to leave a top post up for over a week, could it at least have something better as a picture? Nothing against thermostats, but the January Jones pic was much nicer to look at.

Lou Minatti said...

Yes. Rob, since you are the originator of the Bits Bucket, please give us some empty comments sections once in a while when you're away.

wagga said...

January asked that I post this for her:

Well, It's that time of the month again. I should let you put your hand on my lower belly & feel the cramps.

January

PS - You fuckers forgot my birthday

Chewy said...

The goverment is always trying to control our lives, now theyre trying to control our temperature!!

by the way, Happy Birthday!

- M

Programmable Thermostats

Peripheral Visionary said...

If Rob's not careful, pretty soon some Blogless Guy™ will come in here and settle down, change the pictures and keep the conversation going.

Lou Minatti said...

Since Rob is enjoying Mammoth so much that he's forgotten us, perhaps it's time for the other 56 states to cut California loose.

cajed said...

How to unclog this toilet.

Son of Brock Landers said...

someone needs to find a photo of a walrus on skis. this has to have been done in a warner bros cartoon at some point.

Harriet said...

"The capital flew into a bit of a tizzy when, on his first full day in the White House, President Obama was photographed in the Oval Office without his suit jacket. There was, however, a logical explanation: Mr. Obama, who hates the cold, had cranked up the thermostat.

“He’s from Hawaii, O.K.?” said Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Axelrod, who occupies the small but strategically located office next door to his boss. “He likes it warm. You could grow orchids in there.”

Last Autumn someone (now who was it?) said:

"“We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times . . . and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK.”

P.S. All your wagyu steak are belong to us.

Akira said...

Michelle Malkin sucks.

Quote of the day via Craigslist:
I have gambled on a fart and lost on multiple occasions. The first time I did it was very memorable. It happened when I was five and sitting on my uncle's lap. I am lactose intolerant, but love cheese. I probably win 95% of the time, but I don't think anyone wins 100% of the time. That's why they call it "gambling". I'm the last person to judge you for crapping your pants. In fact, I am impressed by your boldness. The timing on the other hand, could have been a tad bit better...like when you're not sitting on a heated leather seat...

Akira said...

I want SkyTran, Unimodal PodRail and I want it now!

Akira said...

Woohoo!
The Monorail Song Simpsons reminder.

martyseattle said...

Well it looks like Iceland will address its issues by killing a few more whales.

'Iceland raises quota for whale hunts.'

The law of unitended concequences? I can't help wondering though if they' agree to lower the kill in return for other 'considerations'

Mr. Outspoken said...

Your quote has already been flagged for removal, and is unable to be viewed. Now even Craigslist has become the purview of the content police.

Lost Cause said...

Since Rob is enjoying Mammoth...

I thought that Mammoth went extinct.

w said...

this is like the parents moving while the kids are at school. Rob has a new blog with new friends and thought it was just easier to skip out.

Akira said...

Killing all forms of ExN feeds.

Casey Serin said...

Post something new, you portly walrus. ;-)

Pleather Murse said...

Check out these foreclosures in the L.A. area ...

http://www.latimes.com/classified/realestate/news/la-re-foreclosures01-28-pg,0,1105242.photogallery?index=1

(1) Size: This 1,366-square-foot home has three bedrooms and one bathroom. The 1931 house is on a lot of about 5,400 square feet. Agent description: Classic house on nice tree-lined street in north Inglewood, near Windsor Hills. The house is on a raised foundation with hardwood floors, formal dining room, faux fireplace, covered ceilings. Listed for: $236,800 Previously sold for: $485,000 Discount from previous sales price: 51%

(2) 509 S. Cedar Ave., Inglewood 90301 Size: This 770-square-foot home has two bedrooms and one bathroom and was built in 1924. It sits on a 3,060-square-foot property and has a detached garage.
Agent description: Remodeled Spanish in north Inglewood. Raised foundation, hardwood floors, central air, dual pane windows, one minute to all three schools, library, civic center and 405. Listed for: $237,900 Previously sold for: $95,500