Thursday, February 09, 2017

Assurance is not Insurance





From: Average Cost of Homeowners Insurance 
More interesting is the State by State chart at the link. 

For one i had no idea that i basically pay 1/8th what people in Florida pay.  I guess I have to update my stodgy ideas about California being always more expensive.  I'd still bet that earthquake insurance is cheaper there. 

110 comments:

Mike said...

interesting chart..looks like the Gulf coast states (hurricanes) and tornado alley have the highest rates (which kind of makes sense)..

Rob Dawg said...

Since they are "raw" prices and not adjusted for total dollar exposure you are even more correct.

Thomas Stone said...

It's good to see you are resurrecting the Blog. POIC has his up as well "Muddy Economist" and I'll be writing a bit about Real Estate there.

Rob Dawg said...

I am there as well, for the nonce. (I always wanted to use that word.)

I phased out the blog because there were better places. IMO combined ME & EN can do a good job of bridging the void.

Mike said...

obviously wind is the greatest fear of insurance companies..

and yay..Tom Stone is here!!

Rob Dawg said...

and yay..Tom Stone is here!!

Let me explain. There are favors. There are debts. There are beer debts. I owe Tom Stone a beer debt.

Lawyerliz said...

Yeay Tom. Earthquake coverage is assumed in Florida. Insurance is about 3k including Flood. And we have shutters and Miami Dade hurricane windows etc etc. We are on a barrier island which makes it more expensive.

Mike said...

then you have places like New Orleans that get hurricanes and (stand alone) tornadoes..surprised that they can even get insurance down there..

Lawyerliz said...

Insurance companies still hate us.

Lawyerliz said...

There is really no reason for New Orleans to exist any more, not needed as a French fort!

LBD said...

My insurance company in Nebraska is now doing annual exterior inspection on my rentals and Dropping roof coverage due to age. They are not dropping the rate. Hail has become big business here. My personal home has a stone coated steel roof and I get a little discount. Some homes around me have had as many as 3 roofs since I got mine. They are always looking to trim cost but it never seems to stop the rise in rates.

Lawyerliz said...

They really tortured us to grant the measly discount we got.
I don't understand how muddy economist works.
Do duplicate your posts here Tom, plz!

Lawyerliz said...

And there really is no reason for Galveston.

Lawyerliz said...

Within the next year or 2 we'll put on a new roof. I want it to be very resistant to wind.

Mike said...

And there really is no reason for Galveston.

Spring Break!!

LBD said...

Roofing companies here don't want to do steel roofs, so they really give you a cost prohibitive price. They like the repeat business. Simple steel barn panels are cheap and IMO easier to install. With insurance the way it's going I need to search harder for builder who will do it reasonably.

Lawyerliz said...

Demand could be met by temporary structures!

Lawyerliz said...

Would steel be too heavy to rest on wooden trusses?

Lawyerliz said...

Tin and aluminum and something that looks like copper seem to peel off.

Lawyerliz said...

Recent Hurricane Matthew messed up parts of a few roofs, but what really got zapped were business signs. No biggie.

LBD said...

Steel panels are lighter then shingles. I am sure installation for hurricane winds is different then for here. My guess is the right product has been proven for you area and conditions. I love my steel roof.

Rob Dawg said...

Never ceases to amaze the places where great grandparents did it this way passes for an excuse for doing it again.

TJandTheBear said...

Getting lively around here!

I wouldn't exclude any specific topic, just exclude those commenters that cannot engage in discussion on those topics with a modicum of civility... as well as those trolls that think they're being civil whilst continuously spouting condescending drivel. THAT's what drove me away from HCN.

Lawyerliz said...

I think if you lived 3 blocks from us instead of 3k miles you and the hub would be great friends. Here's to transporters. After my tia or whatever it was, am starting to hsve a little energy. Also, I am thinking we should be training the kids in Liz and hub finances 101. My mother's assets were pretty well organized, but it was still somewhat hard for me. Maybe we will spend it all, but it would be fun to spend some on them. You have any thoughts, Rob, anyone? We aren't rich, but pretty darn well off.

Lawyerliz said...

I think the media are regretting any critical word they ever said about Hillary even if she deserved it.

Lawyerliz said...

I hope the daughter gets back to Boston ok from new Z what with all the snow.

Rob Dawg said...

AFAICT New England is on weather hold. Cinco any comment?

I have a lifelong friend in Pittsfield Mass.with whom I keep in weekly or greater contact. Thing is he gets kinda weather grumpy about joe and doesn't always tell the truth.

Rob Dawg said...

Same here. I feel I know your hubby just from our exchanges.

Lawyerliz said...

Lovely here today.

Lawyerliz said...

But need .coffee.

Rob Dawg said...

Coffee sounds good. Maybe some half-can so I can have more without buzzing.

The big CA excitement is the Orrovile Dam spillway collapse. Near capacity and no way to overflow safely.

Rob Dawg said...

Stupid autocorrect. Half-caf.

Lawyerliz said...

Too little water to way too much?

Rob Dawg said...

Too much water to handle without a spillway. Statewide the water levels are double normal for this time of year and snowpack is double normal for the entire year.

It is too soon but I will probably have some engineering criticism of Oroville soon. Something doesn't look right.

Lawyerliz said...

A headine said rear might be missing. Oops. I guess they use forgot
.

Lawyerliz said...

Just forgot. Rebar. Damned spellcheck. In kali reservoirs never fill up!!!!.

Lawyerliz said...

The poor baby fish downstream are at risk.

Rob Dawg said...

If there is no rebar in the spillway, what about the dam itself? Classic California infrastructure corruption.

LBD said...

Good Morning!

LL, We have it set up for the kids to get money and real estate including the rentals. If they chose to continue to work it then they will have nice passive income. One can only hope they have that level of thought when the time comes.

Rob Dawg said...

My mom has enough that she cannot spend the passive income and mandatory distributions. First world problems.

Lawyerliz said...

I think they ought to find out right away!!

Lawyerliz said...

How about a good Alzheimers or diabetes charity?

Lawyerliz said...

I suspend my opposition to capital punishment for dam infrastructure corruption.

LBD said...

They have been instructed and there is a procedure guide so they are not clueless to what we have. One already has a rental so she is learning the skill.

Mike said...

Good morning!!

Do you use a prop mgmt service LBD?? That's the only way I could handle owning rental property..

Rob Dawg said...

The botanist married a CFP who knows this stuff. They'll do fine. Middle kid is a microecon wiz. Too soon to know about the baby.

LBD said...

Yes I have a property manager. I would not do it with one. Many think they will make more doing it themselves but I have more units and they buffer the small problems giving you less headache. I also believe they get more rent and pay for themselves.

Mike said...

Yeah..I would argue that it's not "passive" income if you're managing things yourself.. :<)

If you don't mind...how much do they charge you per month (per unit)?? I hear radio ads out here for a firm that charges $99 per month..not bad given rents for a two bedroom can run $2K+ up here..but that would really cut into the profits in flyover I would imagine..

Rob Dawg said...

As my rentals are SFR and the tenants are chosen for long term I use an agency for turn overs. This protects against any discrimination accusations and the bother of vetting applications. Once accepted I take over routine.

LBD said...

They charge 10% of the monthly rent and half a month for signing a lease. After the first lease expires the are month to month. Good property management is hard to find like anything. $99 a month would scare me in your market, then again different culture.

Mike said...

I'm guessing the $99 is a "teaser" rate..probably all kind of add-ons once you start talking to them...

Mike said...

what brand appliances do you guys buy for your rentals?? The place i live (owned by a big corporation) still seems to favor GE (which I believe isn't really "GE" any more..just in name)..

Rob Dawg said...

Generally I prefer the Craigslist brand. Seriously, appliances depreciate and people don't use them and are fickle to fads. On CL buy late model names you've heard of and that's fine. Last time I bought new it was whatever was being carried by Costco at that time.

LBD said...

What ever the deal of the week is on appliances. I have no clue what the brand of the ones I just bought are. No washer and dryers for me as some renters have their own and then you have to move and store them. Rent to own seems to work for most now days.

Mike said...

how funny...people carry around their own washer/dryers?? Used to drive me nuts down in SoCal when the rentals wouldn't come with a refrigerator..like I wanted to drag one of those around every time I moved..

LBD said...

Seems if they have any appliances those are the ones. I still have an almost new washer and dryer sitting in the basement of an old duplex for years. I think they are still there, maybe someone took them? I hope so then I don't have to move them!

Lawyerliz said...

10% for my one unit. Worth it so far.

Lawyerliz said...

People are very finicky about refrigerators as a client of mine found when he tried to include a refrigerator in the houses h e built and sold. Nobody ever liked the lone he chose. Other appliances they did care about.

Lawyerliz said...

Did NOT

Lawyerliz said...

Or those responsible have to live at the bottom of the dam.

Mike said...

if I was outsourcing my maintenance to a prop mgr..I'd worry they had some kind of kickback scheme in place with the maintenance folks..

I'm cynical that way..lol

Rob Dawg said...

Apologies. Blogger is acting up and refusing to publish the posts I have in the que. Keep talking here while I work on it.

Rob Dawg said...

I've never known a prop mgt firm that DIDN'T have a "tight" relationship with a maintenance company.

Lawyerliz said...

Not that much stuff has broken in my one unit. So far.

LBD said...

Mike, I would not be surprised favors are extended to property managers. Part of the real world and I see any large repair quoted in advance for my approval. You get a feel when they are out of line and generally can reel them in. I worry about the management company being in the sales business and actively sell my renters into owning. I guess you have to set your limits and be happy.

Mike said...

in the past two years..my complex (about 200 units I would guess) has had..

1) major retention wall/hill slide mitigation project
2) replace heating pipes (in walls) in every unit
3) several parking lot projects

now coming up on when all the roofs need to be replaced..

plus the normal stuff..appliances, hot water heaters, kitchen renovations/upgrades (between tenants), routine maintenance, etc etc

even with the rent spikes over the past five years..would be interesting to see if they are turning a profit..

Mike said...

oh yeah..there was a major pool repair project also..probably related to shifting land/hill issue

our maintenance manager is in his mid-40's I'd guess...looks like mid 60's from the stress ;<)

Lawyerliz said...

Yeah the one with my lonely unit is very gradually looking at new roofs. I have been told by the people that run the condo that prices have gone up 15% or so.

Lawyerliz said...

Never forget entropy.

Lawyerliz said...

A double slair of satelites will examine earth's gravity with month maps which will reveal earth's lumps and bumps and changes due to glaces movement and break off, which may reveal stuff about global warming. Don't tell anyone who doesn't want to know!!

Lawyerliz said...

Rats. Pair. . .monthly. . .glaciers. is there a way to edit my misspellings?

Mike said...

Don't tell anyone who doesn't want to know!!

you already did.. ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

Those are the GRACE satellites. They are still settling in. apparently takes a very long time for the readings they take.
http://www.csr.utexas.edu/grace/

I fully expect a lot of big surprises. I expect undersea volcanoes around Antarctica. A startling new image of the magma chamber under Yellowstone. Oddities of the Atlantic rift and through Iceland. Greenland upwelling due to glacial melting. Cool stuff.

Mike said...

I wonder if those satellites will pick up any retired climate scientists now living on FLA barrier islands.. ;<)

Lawyerliz said...

No joy with blogger?

Rob Dawg said...

Found the problem just need to get over to the blogging computer.

Lawyerliz said...

Good.

Lawyerliz said...

The atmospheric scientist is living on Merritt Island which he expects to become Merritt shoals if Trump has his way.

Mike said...

Yes..because Trump can control the impact of 2 billion people in Asia trying to claw their way up to what we would consider a lower middle class existence

but i don't blame you for keeping an eye on the glaciers if you choose to live on a barrier island in FLA.. for the rest of us..not in our top 20 concerns..

Lawyerliz said...

Mea culpa,mea culpa. But there are a lot of people along the coast who should worry. Like in New York City. And remember, I am on my 8 inch alp. People further down the street have got flooded in a weather event or 2, but so far not us.

Lawyerliz said...

The scientist does refuse to live directly along the shore.

Mike said...

Actually..if Trump is successful at getting MNC's to bring their manufacturing operations back to the US..that could have a huge beneficial impact on global warming (assuming you buy into AGW)

Just the reduction in transportation distances (ships, planes) will help a lot..as well as moving manufacturing facilities with low environmental standards (China, Mexico etc) back into the US with higher environmental standards..

Lawyerliz said...

This is the thing, along with trade that I did agree with Trump on. I have no confidence he will follow through in a serious way. I don't think he remembers what he said from one day to the next. He certainly doesn't hear any thing that contradicts his preconceptions.

Lawyerliz said...

The Dow is way up. Is this good or bad?

Rob Dawg said...

The Dow is way up. Is this good or bad?

Bad. There is no reason for so much up. Okay. Now to walk that back. I have been using the rise to reduce exposure. I am getting some good out of the bad.

Blog note: Back in the office soon. New post after that.

Mike said...

He certainly doesn't hear any thing that contradicts his preconceptions.

let's say it's four (or hopefully eight) years down the road..what would Trump have to do for you to rate him a successful POTUS??

Lawyerliz said...

You caught me. The truth is nothing, Because he can't.

Lawyerliz said...

Ok. Reduce the yearly deficit by half. Tax the rich to at least 15% more than what they are paying now, double the taxable ceiling on social security. Prohibit cash out refis, unless the borrower has owned the house for 10 years and negative am mortgages, abandon the F 35 plane and other stuff the Pentagon doesn't want or need. Make sure the banks keep say 5% of the assets the sell, for better or worse. Establish tariffs which equalize out social and ecological safety nets so jobs and pollution are not exported. Legalize pot everywhere. Shall I go on?

Lawyerliz said...

Oh, and tax all forms of sugar heavily.

Lawyerliz said...

Engage in no ne wars, unless to truly defend our republic.

Mike said...

that's a good list..some are not too far off from what he campaigned on (Pentagon buying things they don't need)..

so let's give him some space and see how he does..right now the D's won't even let his cabinet nominees begin their work..

Mike said...

the 5% bank thing..is that a capital ratio target?? what is it now??

Mike said...

Tier 1 capital ratio appears to be 6%..are you saying that needs to be reduced??

Mike said...

no more wars is a big one for me (unless we are attacked of course)...

Mike said...

enforce the immigration laws now on the books and reform the visa programs (H1B, etc) would be next...

Mike said...

tax rates are fine I think but fewer deductions/simplification would help

I would eliminate the cap on SS w/h altogether (at least greatly increase it)...

Lawyerliz said...

It would help if he stopped tweeting in the middle of the night.

Mike said...

well Obama had a compliant/fawning media to get his message out..Trump has to take a more direct approach..lol

k..running to the groc store...hopefully there will be a new post up when I return..

Rob Dawg said...

I don't care how much it is raining. It took way too long to put out some fires today. Back home but need to go out one more time then you all get several weekend posts I hope you enjoy. Again apologies that blogger and real life inconvenienced your running conversations.

LBD said...

You are doing great. Best conversations I have had in a long time.

Mike said...

dang..LBD grabbed comment #100.. :<)

Mike said...

while we wait for the next post..share this anecdote..

watching the local news the other night..we had just got six inches of snow so schools had been cancelled..and the news reporter was out on "the streets" interviewing people about it. She's talking to this gal (middle school age I'd guess..asking her about the "snow day"..and the girl says

Oh..I was so happy..I had a "Life Skills" exam scheduled for today..so now I don't have to take it"..

I'm thinking.."Life Skills??"..isn't that what your parents are supposed to teach you?? Now we've delegated that to our public schools??

Lawyerliz said...

No.

Lawyerliz said...

Could be balancing a check book, that's ok. Or, how to scramble an egg. Or, interest rates and what a mtg is.

Mike said...

if it's personal finance stuff (dangers of credit cards..etc)..I guess that is helpful...but this is Seattle...so it's probably more like how to deal with micro-aggressions.. :<)

Mike said...

Chapter 3: Gender Ambiguity..Find Your Safe Space!!

Lawyerliz said...

That is actually helpful. I personally tend to catastrophize things, and my mother could never have helped with this, since she helped cause it, so I wouldn't sneak at this.

Lawyerliz said...

Hey, is this the Mike and Liz show,

Mike said...

We'd actually make for a good show Liz..opposite ends of the country + opposite political views..:<)

thought I saw a new post pop up (weather related)..but then it went away...

Lawyerliz said...

It's there, wait, it's gone for me too.