Tuesday, August 21, 2007

410 Avocado Place 93010 Koi Edition

Picpalooza. Crappy houses happen. Foreclosures happen. Poor market judgements happen. Bad timing happens. Realtors happen. REOs happen. Countrywide just managed to put the entire housing bubble into one understandable package for us to oogle.

And this isn't about a good house gone bad or even the neighborhood that is still holding price. This is about an industry on ythe cusp of wrenching dislocation. Realtors are about to become the travel agents of the new century. Lenders are about to get a conservative backlash that'll leave "innovators" like CFC drying in the warm sun by thr koi pond. And yes we have koi sighting! Well, kio are a type of fish and mosquito eaters are a type of fish so close enough. PICS:

Designer kitchen
Step in, step up, step down, steps eberywhere
Comfortable accomodations
Pets with drinking problems okay
Recent plumbing
Skate of swim, your choice

More pics in the next post.


Property Flopper said...

This FIRST set of pics shows this place has potential... definitely been empty for a while, the yard doesn't get like that over night.

Nice fix 'n flip if you could get it at a STEEP discout.

Northern Renter said...

I can just imagine the koi (prior to breading) iMURSTed in that pond.


Dan said...

so wait, a real person showed this house to you priced at >1mil?

I'll never look at Realtors the same again.

TK said...

Jesus Christ it looks like somebody istalled a pool slide in Australian Outback. What a nightmare. Mind you a good week of weeding, re-sodding and the hiring of a landscaper (with Army o' Mexicans) would have that backyard nightmare fixed up in no time. That Koi pond resembles the Modesto pool...

Unfortunately too much tree-age for the google map effect.

Fix and flip in this environment and at the prices CFC is asking? I'll wait for them to squander that $11 billion before I start making offers on CFC REOs - particularly ones like this honey.

aaron said...

yeah. seriously. How does a realtor show that with a straight face?

Sweet Cashback said...

Only sushi lovers would buy that place!

- Algae, check
- Koi (type of fish) check

Boil some rice, cut up some Koi and wrap it in algae....et VOILA!

Ogg the Caveman said...

Finally, a place for my 2759 unique koi! Sweet! How much do they want for this jewel again?

Ogg the Caveman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rob Dawg said...


Even funnier is that Countrywide is only into this beauty for $940,000.

Mrs. Dawg and I agreed that $450k and $60-$80k in a 12 week rehab with a December listing for $820k would makes sense all around. We both suspect that a contractor will grab this as a project for $800k and put his crews to work here when not working real projects for clients. As a long time insider I have special knowledge that makes the 12 weeks possible but unless you've got an inside track you'd be lucky to get this in showable condition in 180 days. Lots of nasty landmines like a pushy HOA and septic testing and possible easements.

aaron said...

so rob CFC wants to make 250k on this gem. That's over a 25% gain based upon the 940k. Let's assume that they are carrying most of these in their books like this. How long until they have to readjust the books?

Also, the almost 1.2 mill asking price. did they get an appraisal for that?

Ogg the Caveman said...

Yeah, if the numbers on rest of their portfolio are similar it's going to be a bloodbath.

crhodes110 said...

I might put in an offer on the CW reo on 171 street in Hammond IN It is down the street from my office. In this market you have to go the extra mile and give good value to sell quick.

I got an offer on a renovated house 8 days on market last week.

crhodes110 said...

There is money to make out there.

crhodes110 said...

I say renovated, because I think they are a little different than fix and flip. But I geuss they are the same

crhodes110 said...

I talked to the re agent on that hammond in house. She alluded that there was another offer and that they are not close enough.................Could be bullshit.......I think I am going to offer 42K they have it reduced to 50,900. Small house 720sf w/ basement

Rob Dawg said...

"...talked to the re agent on that hammond in house. She alluded that there was another offer..."
Yeah, right. And when I walked into 410 Avocado this morning, wide open and obviously unshown for months I would have been reported as "a motivated prequal buyer interested in making an offer."

Here's how to handle agents like that. Tell her to get back to you if the deal falls through and how much it was for. If she was lying she won't call back.

H Simpson said...

I cannot believe an agent would take you to this dump.

Did they explain the condition ahead of time?

Did they offer nitrate/latex gloves so you didn't have to worry about catching diseases?

I once toured a house with a dirt basement, latex painted hollow doors, and and damp smell to it.

I told the agent if she ever took me to another sh*thole like that, there would be trouble.

This joint is frick'n unbelievable. I would have pushed the twit into the pool for wasting my time unless they had warned me up front.

NRA expects a big comeback this spring while they are trying to peddle this substandard type of product at insane prices and interest rates go up. They are more diluded than Country Wide.

Must be shortage of crack in your neighborhood Dawg, as it looks like the local housing economy is smoking lots of rocks...


HauspocalypseNow said...

I think you are making assumptions on the facts on this house.

I'm looking at the prop history and i see two mortgages 1,038k(CFC) and 120k(private party)

The current owner is listed ast Bank OF NY. Its possible the second bought out the first and CFC is servicing the mortgage for BofNY and THEY are setting the assking price high enough so they can be paid off 100%.

Remember CFC only owns a fraction of the homes on its foreclosure site. They service for freddie/fannie/va/gnna/private investors as well as thier own.

Look at propertyshark.

Ogg the Caveman said...

@ crhodes110 :

Small house 720sf w/ basement

I hope that number doesn't include the basement. 720sf is significantly smaller than my current looser rental cave. How many bedrooms?

Rob Dawg said...

Ummmm, hemmm, errr, uhhhh. Welllll.... to tell the truth.... I just sorta, well you know, uh "toured the property" without actually bothering the poor overworked agent.

My 'hood (Los Posas) is 4 standard deviations away from the typical American neighborhood. There's nothing wrong with it unless you want to live here and cannot afford it. There are lots of reasons for this area to be really expensive and -relatively- it will probably remain really expensive. By the same measures there's no way prices can stay this high.

Here's a "real" house for sale halfway twixt the Dawg House and 410 Avocado:


Better everything with a bit smaller lot.

I just canot imagine paying $900/mo in property taxes.

Peripheral Visionary said...

I don't quite see what the problem is. For a fish farm, it's in reasonably good shape; I mean, sure, you'd have to bulldoze the dump of a house that happens to be sitting on the lot, but once that's out of the way, it should be perfectly viable. You could raise koi (that's a type of fish), and you'd probably qualify for organic™ certification.

Next question would be if you could move some chicken coops onto the property. Fence off the lot, have some free-range chickens in addition to the organic™ koi, open up a booth in front and sell some modified vegan™ products direct to the public. Sweet™.

Peripheral Visionary said...

And what's up with the cans of soup on the counter? Homeless Guy™ found a new place to stay?

Rob Dawg said...

Your points are well taken. When houses get this bad their "provenance" gets muddled. Zillow, propertyshark, county tax records all have variations. County data:




HauspocalypseNow said...

Yes Ive seen lots of muddled records.
Since I dont care enough to actually order a title history I just take a best guess.

When people refi twice a year and/or pull out another HELOC its gets to bee a confusing mess.

Also the bank really does need to start at an asking price that will get them paid off 100%+realtor commission. No matter how crazy it is, there are comps to support a crazy high price (even now..might be dated) and if they set a low low asking price they are open to lawsuits from investors loses thier asses. No reason they cant accept a low ball offer. (they will have to)

Property Flopper said...

H. Simpson:

> I told the agent if she ever took me
> to another sh*thole like that, there
> would be trouble.

But that's where the money is. I had to do just the opposite - tell my agent to take me to WORSE sh*tholes than she was... the stuff I was being shown only needed minor fixings and was priced close to market - no margin there.

Found a beauty... Browns Valley area of Napa. Other than the country club, one of the better parts of Napa. Structurally sound, but the owner had gone nuts and had garbage piled waist high through the entire place. Had tacked on a lean-to type extension (all unpermitted) to the back.

Well, first two weekends I owned it, I (being me and a crew) pulled 50 cubic yards of garbage out of the house. Not removing walls or anything, just loose garbage. Yard was another story (and a lot more truck loads).

Had to replace every floor in the place and update quite a bit, about $140k out of pocket, but I pulled a $250k profit when all was said and done. Not bad... not sure I'd want to jump into another one that ugly, but it sure can be profitable.

crhodes110 said...

Ogg here is the listing. There are still people buying houses. Just not as many. And they are buying the best for the money.
Contrary to Housing Panic blog. I dont think the end of the earth is here. Here is the listing. I have been in it. It is prety trashed with mold on some walls.

crhodes110 said...

Oh, I forgot to mention. All of CWs listing say that you MUST have an approuval from CW if you are getting financing. However to get financing on this house the appraiser has to lie his as off.

I bet CW would give financing on this house to someone with good credit as Owner Ocupied even though it is uninhabitable at the moment

crhodes110 said...


Rob Dawg said...

I live in one of my better deals. The "foundation" was supposedly broken. People walked in, well, tried to walk in but the doors were twisted beyond opening so the went around to the back if they bothered at all. Ahh the benefits of an extraordinarilly expensive engineering education. In the early 60s there was a tranisition from perimeter to slab foundations. For a time they poured perimeter foundations and then poured slab floors inside. This was like that. once the floor was jackhammered and repoured the whole house went back to square. Crisis is opportunity.

Countrywide is not serving anyone with their stewardship of this property.

Rob Dawg said...

BTW as of the last tax bill whomsoever the owner turns out to be is still claiming the $7000 owner occupied exemption. Snigger.

crhodes110 said...

Here is another CW .......But you get a free 11 dollar credit report


Rob Dawg said...


I have no idea if that's a good price for that house or not. IMO all these CFC properties are going to be beanies babies with 5 zeros appended.

Peripheral Visionary said...

Off-topic, but if I see one more article from a market commentator crying for a rate cut from the Fed, I cannot be held responsible for my actions. I am sick and tired of it--grown men with PhDs acting like babies, throwing a tantrum, whining and complaining and stamping their feet and threatening and bullying and all but saying that their daddy will beat up Dr. Bernanke unless they get their rate cut.

What makes it especially infuriating is that it is all a selfish pack of lies. A rate cut won't save the troubled homeowners, and they know it perfectly well. Mortgage rates are set in the open market, and the Treasury yields that the mortgage rates are based on won't necessarily go down just because the Fed cuts the rates. The confidence of the credit markets has been permanently shaken, and no rate cuts will change that.

What a rate cut would affect is the rate at which the heavily leveraged speculators borrow money from the investment banks. A big rate cut would also temporarily boost the market, which with the rate cut would conveniently hold open the exits for the heavily leveraged speculators--speculators like hedge funds, which many of the market commentators just happen to have investments in.

From Dr. Kellner: "This is not a bailout - it's the Fed's reason for being."

Yes, it's a bailout, and no, it's not the Fed's reason for being, and if it happens, you can add the Fed to Wall Street on the list of institutions that have lost their credibility.

crhodes110 said...

They are going to lower the FF rate. Shermyer was even calling for it. I follow Shermyer.

crhodes110 said...



Peripheral Visionary said...

They'll probably get their cut, and it'll save a few of the hedge funds who are in trouble, but it won't save the "distressed homeowners", and it won't save the markets or the economy. What the complainers aren't telling you is that they don't want a rate cut--they want A LOT of rate cuts, and the temper tantrums are going to continue until the Fed cuts the rates all the way back down to 1%.

But it won't improve anything. The confidence in the credit system has been destroyed, at this point there's nothing the Fed can do about that but make it worse.

Ogg the Caveman said...

What would a place like that Hammond house be worth on the current market if it were rehabbed to the state it was in before being trashed?

crhodes110 said...

I would list at 79,900. The house is small. It needs alot of TLC but how much materials can you go through in a 720 sf 2 bedroom 1 bath?

crhodes110 said...

There is an easy 15k profit there for some one who dosent mind the hassle for only 15k........assuming they take 45k

crhodes110 said...

I havent put a bid because my cash is in three other houses Ones on contract waiting to close. The home inspection list is big. I am meeting a plumber today at five...........dont want to loose my buyer.

Rob Dawg said...

IN is not SoCal in so many ways. What could you rent this for ater your efforts?

crhodes110 said...

Of course it isnt. Its Frickin Hoosierville I personaly have not been raised in such neiborhoods. But the neiborhoods are home to 45k working class people. But thats why I am making good money. I am 3/4 mile from the illinois state line and about 6 miles from Chicago. Chicago is inflated. You have people renting in Chicago, buying in Whiting IN and Hammond. We are blowing the doors off the other flippers and setting and raising the bar.

crhodes110 said...

Oh that house could rent for 750 - 800. But I would put less into it.........we dont rent.....I wish we could get alot of the renters out...not that renters are bad, but around here they are renting because they cannot sell the POS. The town is giving 7500 twords collage for people who buy a house and live in it for 6 years

crhodes110 said...

They say this is the first of its kind.......I dont know


Anonymous said...

Off topic:

Business Week has an article with a slide show about online investing at sites that let investors blog, share ideas, etc. I had to laugh when I read this on one of the slides:

This profile of a TradeKing account holder who calls himself ItsAllGood shows some of the stocks he tracks, his trading style, how many years of investment experience he has, and some of the friends he has made in the online community. Fellow community members can click on his trading strategies, his blog, or any of the other hot links for more information.


Lost Cause said...

I like the big lot, and it is a good sized house in a great area. There is much going for this place. You want to see what this price gets you in Huntington Beach?

Rob Dawg said...

Give me $20k to work with and I could get you $1m for this place. You are correct. I'm busting on 410 precisely because there is so much just under the surface.