Friday, March 31, 2017

Money Displaces Morals

April Fool’s Day will greet smokers with a cigarette tax rate increase that will take a big bite out of their wallets.
The new cigarette tax rate increase will see the state tax on a pack of 20 cigarettes jump from 87 cents to $2.87, with the tax including nicotine delivery devices such as electronic cigarettes, e-cigars, e-pipes, vape pens, and e-hookahs.
Products sold in combination with substances containing nicotine will be subject to the current tobacco products tax rate of 27.30 percent of the wholesale cost of the product. The average price of a pack of cigarettes in California already is $5.89. Beginning Saturday, that will increase to $7.89.

-----

Okay.  I've no doubt my dad died as much as a decade or more earlier than he might have had he not smoked.  No real way to tell. Doesn't matter.  I do know that if something is so dangerous and destructive that if $2.87 per pack is justified then prohibition is more justified. 

And let us not forget.  Without the "overhead" a cigarette would cost a couple pennies.  The extreme regulatory environment generates huge profits for the pushers. 

169 comments:

Mike said...

boy..they are asking for some cross-border "arbitrage" with those taxes..

Rob Dawg said...

We sold them whiskey. They sell us smokes. Red mans revenge.

Unknown said...

The government is addicted to the tax revenue. That's why tobacco use will always be legal.

LBD said...

Good Morning!

Government gets it cut of the racket. Just like the SEC, no jail and nobody admits wrong doing. Isn't that nice.

Cinco-X said...

So glad I quit back in '94

Elizabeth Merceret said...

So glad I never started.
Hub's editorial is available but not on cell phones and the like. Florida Today's web site.

If price is everything, fewer will smoke, and less. Interesting to see at what point smuggling will become massive.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Gee, hope they don't do the same with coffee.

Mike said...

You have to wonder how much of California's economy is already "off the books"..this will just add to it..

g' morning all..

Mike said...

Of course the lefties will see the 50% reduction in taxes collected and declare success at getting people to quit.. ;<)

Mike said...

yeah let's not get carried away and apply "MAGA" principles to include America growing our own coffee... :)

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Fed might start letting bonds mature.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

And Mike that would be a good thing, if it twernt just off the books. Less illness!

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Ok to read his offering:

Http://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/04/01.trump.climat.or

Includes a picture if you are curious.

LBD said...

The price of being cool doesn't matter. What is the price of a top shelf shot at a bar?

Mike said...

might keep some people from ever starting (which is good)..but at those prices..i expect the state to be flooded with black market product..which many of the current smokers will figure out how find.

LBD said...

Will pot have the same tax on it?

Mike said...

that link didn't work for me Liz...I'll try to find thru Goog..

Elizabeth Merceret said...

His picture is not there. Just a protester wearing an ugly chartreuse shirt. I found the interface hard to deal with. But it's there.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Isn't pot already heavily taxed?

Mike said...

just read it...a little short on specifics imo..e.g. what specifically have the federal agencies been doing since Obama's EO that will not be done now??
What will those people/resources be working on now?? Why can't state/local resources be used instead??

Rob Dawg said...

Brevard County can’t by itself do much to affect global climate change: That will take an international effort. On the other hand, we can begin to prepare our infrastructure and our land and water use policies to deal with the changes and minimize the impact.

Stop pumping groundwater.

Mike said...

Florida's property taxes are about half the national average. I think they should vote themselves an increase..and use the revenue to hire scores of seawater mitigation experts.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

It was only allowed to be a certain number of words long. It's an editorial. I think he wrote a long report. You wanna read it?

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Mike our taxes are low, but. Our insurance is prolly 5 or 10 times what yours is. Suppose you Kali types were required to pay a Fair price for earthquake insurance?

Mike said...

I would like to know about specific programs which were enabled by the Obama EO..that will now need to be cancelled because of the Trump EO..and why the state/local is unable to continue those themselves.

Mike said...

Taxes and insurance are two completely different things. Sounds like you guys want to maintain your low property taxes and have the rest of us pay for your infrastructure needs.

Mike said...

btw..I believe your husband misread Trump's EO..it actually said all federal resources on this issue should be concentrated around Mar a Lago ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

Places like Brevard want to keep doing what they've been doing. Stop channelizing surface water. Stop resisting natural beach deposition and erosion. Stop groundwater pumping. Don't allow rebuilding when coastal structures get destroyed. What? You mean you aren't willing to act locally for local problems?

Rob Dawg said...

And his Scottish golf course.

Mike said...

And his Scottish golf course.

yes all foreign aid will now be channeled towards Scottish coastline preservation.. hahahaha

LBD said...

Looks like the answer to the cigarette tax is to grow your own pot. :) Next election it will be a Weed in very Pot! I can see it now. LOL!

Elizabeth Merceret said...

And dawg, shall we follow Cali's lead in groundwater pumping?

Mike said...

actually..I'm going to change my statement on insurance and taxes being different things. They are actually related.

Florida's property insurance rates are amongst the highest in the country..because of the huge risk of losses. Therefore...Florida's property taxes should also be amongst the highest in the country...invested in infrastructure to try to minimize/mitigate those losses.

Instead..they are amongst the lowest...

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Eo is vague. Up to agencies involved. He doesn't know.

Rob Dawg said...

Copying California is rarely a good idea. There are exceptions. Redistricting. Top two candidates. Propositions. 2/3rds for tax increases.

Rob Dawg said...

EOs are not supposed to replace legislation. Many 00O actions were mere circumvention of congress.

Cinco-X said...

How about a link?

Cinco-X said...

Maybe climate change will facilitate that!!!!!

Rob Dawg said...

Florida is getting bad about tolls.

Mike said...

California's earthquake insurance rates are actually pretty substantial..the problem is that they are voluntary (not mandatory). You can definitely see the impact of them in HOA fees though..which run double the national average.

Cinco-X said...

For a moment there I thought you said "let blondes mature"...

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Mike, Miami Beach is spending 400m $ On this stuff. T doesn't want them to.

Cinco-X said...

Probably more... There aren't many pot smokers that smoke 20-40 joints a day

Cinco-X said...

Sure

Cinco-X said...

Disallowing the rebuilding of shoreline structures would severely hurt their tax base

Cinco-X said...

I think MAs new law allows you to grow the plants. I don't know how they'd enforce a tax...

Mike said...

T doesn't want them to.

link please..

Cinco-X said...

At first I thought you said, "bad about trolls"

Elizabeth Merceret said...

You guys can comment directly to the hub. He's the one who knows about this stuff. Some people already have. He will respond tomorrow after the print edition.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

No idea where I read that

Cinco-X said...

http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-seritage-growth-properties-short-interest-2017-3

A shorting play on Sears, but without borrowing Sears shares since there are no more Sears shares to borrow

sm_landlord said...

Raising the tobacco tax seems to be mostly about protecting the cash flow to the State agency that administers the funds. Notice how they expanded the tax to the "clean nicotine" delivery systems. Follow the money.

And you could see this coming last Fall, as the State spent a small fortune buying TV advertising to promote the idea that vaping is evil. Since the victim class for this tax is relatively small, poor, and has been officially ostracized through a multi-decade propaganda campaign, they are unable to protect themselves directly. I agree that they will turn to the black market, since that's pretty much the only avenue open to them.

Rob Dawg said...

310 million square feet. Let that sink in. No, rather think about the billions of other square feet that suddenly are worth a fraction of their previously assumed value. Once it comes out that no one wants those retail spaces at any price the entirety of CRE is going to implode. Too late to short Sears specific stocks too soon to short CRE/REITs? Watch General and Simons.

Mike said...

No idea where I read that

a quick Google search brings back nothing on the subject. Saw something about him building a sea wall to protect his properties..so kudos to him for not using his position in government to protect his private financial interests.

Rob Dawg said...

Anyone else envisioning the day when the California police drone over your property triggers a raid because you tried to conceal tobacco growing in your marijuana crop?

Mike said...

Some people already have. He will respond tomorrow after the print edition.

they want $20 (year's subscription) to read the comments...paste in a couple of good ones if you get a chance..

Mike said...

California police drone over your property triggers

tobacco sniffing guard dogs at the Nevada border..

Rob Dawg said...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/health/dui-charge-caffeine-california-trnd/index.html

Rob Dawg said...

Notice how they expanded the tax to the "clean nicotine" delivery systems. Follow the money.

Everything California has done for more than a decade (prolly back to Prop 13) has been about more/bigger blood funnels.

It is truly sad. All revenue seems to go to "overhead" before the first penny gets released for the intended purposes.

Mike said...

Next weeks op-ed..

Malibu homeowner makes plea for FedGov to figure out a way to keep that mountain across the street from moving thru his property into the ocean..

;<)

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Nazca tectonic plates !Oving over ummm Andean?? Plate at 66 millimeters a year. That's huggge geologically.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

I didn't know you had to have a subscription to leave a comment. Sorry. Will cut and paste when he shows me how. He's working on his U U talk for tomorrow.

Mike said...

yeah I ran into a paywall (just to read..wasn't planning on commenting..being a local issue and all) ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

I am acutely aware and deeply concerned at the trend of required "joining"as precondition of participating including here.

Mike said...

yeah..they didn't like my ad blocker either...

it's owned by USA Today...blecchhhh

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Well they do need money since the print media Are dying, but I understand your concern.

Mike said...

now if Liz's hub were to pen an op-ed in the local paper titled "Merritt Island Homeowner calls for Higher Prop taxes to Fund Seawater Mitigation Projects"..that I would pay $20 for to read the comments!! :<)

Elizabeth Merceret said...

I thought I'd outlive Manny things but never thought I'd see the impending death of the printed book. Well it had a run off over 500 years, pretty good.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

He smiled and said he's made comments like that at county commission meetings.

Rob Dawg said...

I for one welcome the future where SOPApedia and wikiPIPA agree to several decimal places. In case you all haven't been following this has been happening.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

He actually thinks our property taxes aren't high enough. When he says that, I grumble.

Mike said...

He smiled and said he's made comments like that at county commission meetings.

was he pelted with tomatoes??

Rob Dawg said...

he smiled

To which comment are you replying?

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Higher property taxes

Rob Dawg said...

I pay insanely low property taxes relative to assumed value. I pay insanely high property taxes relative to service costs and services provided.

Mike said...

do you have earthquake insurance Rob??

Mike said...

I found it kind of odd that pro baseball season starts tomorrow (on a Sunday..don't recall that ever happening before)..then i realized final four is today (they probably didn't want to compete with that)...

Rob Dawg said...

Earthquake insurance? Heck no. The price the deductible the coverage the restrictions all a bad deal. 22 years here if we had had eq ins we would be 4x behind the curve. We are also ummmn.... how to say.... not in need of insurance to self recover from an earthquake.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

I do, I do, Mike!!! I also have hurricane insuraNce, with a deductible about the cost of a roof.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Dawg is rich is!!

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Ish

Mike said...

yeah..it would be a tough call if I owned property on the west coast. On the one hand..it's your largest asset..so you want to protect it...but very expensive (with huge deductibles)..and no guarantee the insurance company is going to avoid bankruptcy if the really big one hits..

and rebuilding costs are going to be astronomical for a while (supply and demand)...

Mike said...

you have EQ insurance in Florida Liz?? how much does that run??

Elizabeth Merceret said...

We prolly almost paid back the money we got from hurricane Andrew.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Mike. We have no earthquakes. They just throw it in.

Mike said...

We have no earthquakes. They just throw it in.

how funny...

Mike said...

I've got it..Rob you buy hurricane insurance..Liz you have EQ insurance...and then we'll execute a swap!!

Rob Dawg said...

Comes the big one my biggest worry will be BBQing the freezer full of meat and blacking out the windows so people don't know we are living comfortably with power and water.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Rob might have a destructive hurricane once in a while. We don't have earthquakes.

Mike said...

so you think your structure will make it??

Mike said...

I'm thinking a big one..like 8.0

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Closest earth quake. Tennessee. Tee hee.

Mike said...

Closest earth quake. Tennessee. Tee hee.

wait until you see Trump's plan to start fracking Brevard County.. ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

An 8.0 on the San Andreas would likely crack the plaster and stucco here. Maybe make a few doors sticky or require patching concrete. A local fault rupture unlikely in the 7s could make the haus unsafe but we have tents and water and generators and food.

Mike said...

yeah..the Ventura fault could rip a 7.0

tents would be fun!! ;<)

Mike said...

I have no viable plan for up here..other than a lot of crying

Mike said...

but..thinking about the prospect of living outside for a couple months.. I would like to take a moment to thank the brainiacs in FedGov who decided to reintroduce wolves and grizzly bears to the region..

Mike said...

arguing about who the Seahawks should draft with their first round pick next month over on another blog..just so you guys know you aren't the only ones stuck with me.. ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

Snake whomsoever Bill Belichick seems to want would be the best strategy.

Short answer is ask Wilson who he would like in front of him and get as close to that as possible.

Thomas Stone said...

Higher Cigarette taxes will bring a LOT of money to the Indian Reservations.
They are Sovereign Nations and Cigs sold there are not subject to State taxes...

Mike said...

hahaha

does anyone have an ETF ticker for California Indian reservations??

Mike said...

Short answer is ask Wilson who he would like in front of him and get as close to that as possible.

not a bad plan!!

Mike said...

it's going to be sad that once the Raiders move to LV.. the Bay area will be without a professional football team.. ;<)

Mike said...

next to "succeeds despite themselves" in the dictionary..is a picture of California

LBD said...

Interesting question at my age, would I rebuild if a tornado wiped my house off the map? Probably damage or take out my motor home as well. That being the case I would by another Motor home and move into one of our rentals when available. What kind of house would I rebuild with the insurance money? Not sure it would be any bigger but better. I would assume there would be a housing shortage so buying another wouldn't be an option.

Mike said...

motor home lands on all fours and none the worse for wear would be my bet..

:<)

LBD said...

I probably patch the motor home up faster then the house.

Mike said...

do you guys get a lot or tornadoes there??

growing up in Wisconsin we would get a few...terrifying

LBD said...

We are at the north end of tornado alley but little activity. Seems to be S/SE has more. Advantage of low population density, even with a lot of trailer house magnets. :)

Mike said...

I aspire to a 70's vintage mobile home with mega wood paneling..

kind of a Rockford files existence.. ;<)

Rob Dawg said...

Someone had to say it.

Mike said...

woo hoo..Gonzaga into the finals!!

Rob Dawg said...

I'm serious. Half of us are going to have automous driving RVs by 2025. It will be amazing. Press the Yellowstone button and hang out in back binge watching NCIS.

Mike said...

Half of us are going to have automous driving RVs

works if everyone on the road is autonomous..but half autonomous/half traditional?? every accident will be blamed on autonomous...

Rob Dawg said...

By 2025 onboard sensors will make every incident absolutely incontestable.

Mike said...

Russians!!

Rob Dawg said...

And by then retro kits will be available to remove the engine and drive train for pickups and SUVs with batteries and a rear wheel electric motor.

Mike said...

I barely drive my car and I still spend $100 per month on it (gas/insurance/tags, etc)..

would love an alternative to that....

Rob Dawg said...

Russians hacked my GPS Mr Ranger. That's why I'm -in- the Grand Canyon.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Watched show on hummingbirds. We had to take down the bush our Hummers liked because it was over the septic tank we had to replace. No wonder it was such a happy bush. They are mean!

The blue jays are mean too. Oh, well, the are dinosaurs after all.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

You are not. I shake my head in your direction.

Mike said...

I'm convinced Blue Jays are the a-holes of the bird world..

Elizabeth Merceret said...

We need a quantum leap in battery technology. Whoever does that will deserve the gazillions of dollars they​ make.

People traveled all around as Hunter gatherers. Maybe we are missing this.

Rob Dawg said...

Not to be confused with the NY Yankees.

Rob Dawg said...

Liz, the battery tech is not that far away. These new glass/liquid cells look very promising.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Hope so. Who is working on that?

How are your catz? I'm

Rob Dawg said...

The same guy who invent the lithium ion battery.

Mike said...

Blue Jays/Red Sox/Yankees/..all of them a-holes ..lol

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Bob Dylan, not anasshole pi cked up. His Nobel.

Guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children. . .
It's a hard hard hhharrrdd hard rain
It's a hard rains a gonna fall all all!

Mike said...

Bob Dylan..Buckets of Rain..

I like your smile
And your fingertips
Like the way that you move your lips
I like the cool way you look at me
Everything about you is bringing me misery


genius

Mike said...

Our conversation was short and sweet
It nearly swept me off my feet
And I'm back in the rain, oh
And you are on dry land
You made it there somehow
You're a big girl now


genius

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Yep. It's read a poem day next week at the college. Which one of his shall I choose?

Mike said...

A change in the weather is known to be extreme
But what's the sense of changing horses in midstream?
I'm going out of my mind, oh
With a pain that stops and starts
Like a corkscrew to my heart
Ever since we've been apart


Mike said...

If you see her, say hello,
She might be in Tangiee
She left here last early spring
Is livin' there, I hear
Say for me that I'm all right
Though things get kind of slow
She might think that I've forgotten her
Don't tell her it isn't so

Mike said...

ok..I'll stop ;<)

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Niey nite. It's been great all.

Mike said...

speaking of Dylan..we need to get the other Rob..Robj over here...his politics was questionable lol..but other than that it was like we were long lost brothers

Mike said...

cya Liz..thanks for putting up with us.. :<)

Mike said...

ok..one more

She was workin' in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer
I just kept lookin' at the side of her face
In the spotlight so clear
And later on as the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same
She was standing there in back of my chair
Said to me "Don't I know your name?"
I muttered somethin' under my breath
She studied the lines on my face
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces
Of my shoe
Tangled up in blue

Rob Dawg said...

We do tend to bounce around a bit here.

Mike said...



opportunities a plenty for people to take the conversation wherever...perfect

Thanks for providing the forum..

and good night everyone...

LBD said...

Random is good.

Cinco-X said...

Morning all... Where's Liz?

Lawyerliz said...

Here I am!!!! Had I wonderful long nites sleep. Son and dil gettin g furniture today. Sent the hub for wake up juice. Dog loves the new house. Cats in hiding.

Lawyerliz said...

They are an hour behind us. Gotta remember not to text too early
Hope he likes his new job.

Lawyerliz said...

House up another 100$ All right with the world.

Lawyerliz said...

CR is down right dull without us.

Lawyerliz said...

Fla today price has hub's picture too.

Cinco-X said...

We're better off here than there without an ignore feature...

Lawyerliz said...

Piece

Lawyerliz said...

Yep.

Lawyerliz said...

A Jewish cemetery found in Roma had no headstones by command of mean pope. They showed malnutrition.

Lawyerliz said...

Ok, I'm here, everyone else go away?

LBD said...

Good Morning!

Lived through April Fools day! No rain today.:)

LBD said...

Religion the first form of politics.

Breakfast time.

Rob Dawg said...

One and a half million views and I've censored IIRC 4-5 reader posts. Two at their request. Funny how that heavy hand is enough to scare off the would be disruptors.

Rob Dawg said...

Nah. Marriage is the first form of politics. [/ducks]

Lawyerliz said...

Animals of all types seek the alpha position. Apes and dogs don't have teligionn, I don't think.

Rob Dawg said...

And Liz. Yes please if you can send me the bigger piece your hubs wrote.

Lawyerliz said...

Sheesh. Religion.

Rob Dawg said...

Clearing the invasive grasses from the middle hillside I keep uncovering specimen plants. French lavender and I think Spanish sage. The parrot's beak continues to amaze and the Pride of Madeira are reaching full bloom. Work work work 1st world problems.

LBD said...

Some bulbs showing but nothing blooming here yet. My interest in yard work has diminished over the years.

Rob Dawg said...

My efforts have been towards lower maintenance while still looking good.

Lawyerliz said...

The turtle in front was out and scooted back in when it saw me.

Lawyerliz said...

E mail address? Off to UU church soon. After that.

Lawyerliz said...

Well, tortoise.

Rob Dawg said...

A little delay in the next post.

Here's the garden picture until I fix the links.:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RFOARO3YtSE/WOEh1GeaMEI/AAAAAAAAI_g/w2M6brtnFeEi2wXrU7iRSCvEiB0WRCoGACLcB/s1600/IMG_2008.jpg

Cinco-X said...

We'd have some bulbs showing, but everything is covered with snow

Cinco-X said...

Niiiiice!