Wednesday, March 29, 2017

Seven Hundred Thousand

Historical photo of a field worker using the inhumane "short hoe."
He’s lived, and worked in Ventura County for more than 30 years. He’s raised a half dozen kids, and paid taxes. But, this now 66 year old Camarillo man isn’t in the U.S. legally, despite years of effort to get proper status. Speaking through an interpreter, Alfredo (we aren’t using his full name, because of concerns about his identity) admits he’s worried about what could happen to him and others like him under the new Trump Administration.
Alfredo is one of more than 150 people packing the lobby of the Mexican Consulate in Oxnard, seeking help.
The Consulate serves Mexican nationals living in Ventura, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo County, a number estimated by officials at the office in excess of 700,000 thousand people.

More at KCLU.

Seven hundred thousand sounds like a lot but keep in mind there are many legal residents and most naturalized citizens retain dual citizenship. 

What about the component everyone is talking about these days?  The illegals.  From 2014:
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on California Taxpayers (pdf)


Californians bear an enormous fiscal burden as a result of an illegal alien population estimated at almost 3 million residents. The annual expenditure of state and local tax dollars on services for that population is $25.3 billion. That total amounts to a yearly burden of about $2,370 for a household headed by a U.S. citizen.
Nearly half of those expenditures ($12.3 billion) result from the costs of K-12 education for the children of illegal aliens — both those illegally in the country and those born in the United States. Another major outlay ($2.1 billion) results from the need to provide supplemental English language instruction to Limited English Proficient students, many of whom are children of illegal aliens. Together, these educational costs are 57.1 percent of total expenditures.
Other fiscal outlays result from the costs of medical care ($4.0 billion), public assistance services ($800 million), administration of justice functions ($4.4 billion), and general governmental services ($1.6 billion).
Because some tax revenue is collected from the illegal alien population, we include an estimate of this revenue from sales, income, property and "sin" taxes. Yet, it should be kept in mind that the $3.5 billion in tax collections is not truly an offset to the fiscal costs, because similar, and likely greater, tax revenue would be collected if the same jobs were filled by legal workers.

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91 comments:

Lawyerliz said...

Won't the kids contribute due to their education?
You would have to pay Americans at least 3 times what they are getting, and still might get no takers, resulting in more expensive food. Heck maybe the food should be grown in Mexico.

Lawyerliz said...

I just spent maybe 45 minutes chopping sawgrass, and I am very tired.

Lawyerliz said...

I think these people who are so eager to get rid of Mexicans should spend an hour or 2 doing farm or yard work by hand. On the other hand, should they move their families here and stay here forever? Weren't their programs to bring them here and take them back again?

Lawyerliz said...

I just got word that my longest lady is not paying, which would have been a logical reason to just let the case be dismissed. So maybe 3 or 4 years ago she made 2 or 3 payments and that's it for 10 years. Her children are now grown up! If they restarted now, it would take 4 to 6 months to get her out. Most likely to 2018. The plaintiff is Option One which went MIA years and years ago!

LBD said...

It is not who will work the fields but who is legal. 50 years of ignoring this problem is very hard to unwind. IMO if you are in the country illegally then your children born here should not be American citizens. No free government services if you are illegal. Lot of burnt toast to deal with.

I did work in the fields and know what stoop labor is like. ;)

Elizabeth Merceret said...

It would take a constitutional amendment you know. Do you think we could take their citizenship away, if they have done nothing? Perhaps we should not allow obviously pregnant women in the country? Patrol the farmworkers residences and taKe the women across the border so they don't give birth here?

We actually have the resources to do that, tho it sounds, I dunno, kinda Nazi ish??

Elizabeth Merceret said...

To reiterate. They already have citizensip at the !Oment of birth. So if a constitutional amendment was passed to!Orrow, it would only affect children born here afterwards.

Cinco-X said...

Is there any reason to think she might ever start paying?

LBD said...

You are being extreme. The ones that have citizenship here now would stay, what's done is done. The baby of an illegal can be born here and go home with the parents. What is Mexico's policy with illegal aliens? Splitting families is the risk the illegal must bare. They did the crime and is no different then a American going to prison splitting up a family.

EngineerJim said...

Well to make an fair comparison of the expenditures for 3 million illegals, you would have to compare it with the expenditures for 3 million legal people at approximately the same economic level. So for example, you would still be spending the $12.3B for education. As far as the other cost, who knows. Also, you would probably be collecting more than $3.5B in taxes from legal residents (as mentioned in the article). It's a mixed bag, difficult to unravel at this point.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

I don't think so Cinco.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Yep, Jim.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Each, let's just builds wall. . .snark.

Actually the best thing to do is make Mexico so nice to live in, nobody much would want to leave.

LBD said...

"Actually the best thing to do is make Mexico so nice to live in, nobody much would want to leave."

NAFTA was supposed to help with that.

Economics is part of the problem. Those not working is another. Soon as RD points out the call of machines to the fields is coming. Saw a brick laying machine with a 6-1 ratio eliminating masons. They also have no family to support.

Mess.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Ned Ludd had a point, I guess.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

What we really need is a house cleaning robot. A way upgraded Roomba.

Rob Dawg said...

Liz,
http://exurbannation.blogspot.com/2006/04/pushpull-immigration.html

From almost exactly 11 years ago.

The reason we don't have house and yard robots is -because- of cheap marginal labor.

Rob Dawg said...

Soon as RD points out the call of machines to the fields is coming. Saw a brick laying machine with a 6-1 ratio eliminating masons.

You certainly have my number.

And yes, I saw that 6:1 brickbot too. Those concrete printed houses are even cooler. Dawgifornia uniform building codes are designed to fast track innovations such as these.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

I don't think so. I'd buy one. I have maids come every 3weeks and the reason they don't come twice a week is simply price

Mike said...

watching them harvest corn is pretty amazing. The big combines pluck the cobs right off the plants..leaving the plants/stalks in place (which helps with reducing soil erosion). One guy on tractor can do acres at a time. Might be a bit more difficult with softer fruits....but as they say..necessity is the mother of invention.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

My yard guy isn't cheap.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Read Door Into Summer by Heinlein, if you haven't.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Virtually. The entire​ modern world and way of living that he predicted starting in 1939, including his version of the internet, until the mid to late 50s has come to pass. Except a moon base and we could have done that. . . And Hired Girl robots. He predicted hostmOthers in the 50s and my 11 year old self thought, oh that will never happen. A moon base I thought​ would. Wrong.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

We need a Heinlein to tell us the future.

LBD said...

Farm machines get bigger and better all the time. Soft fruits have been perfected to a point that labor cost are the main factor. Just like the $15 hr burger flipper job is the end of their job. be very careful what you ask for. Don't forget seed technology. The swine operation a the university farm has different purple colored light out side at night. I assume they are researching germ warfare. Things are rolling along and importing more poverty has failed horribly and needs to stop now. IMO.

Mike said...

I imagine the people who do strenuous farm work for long periods of time pay for it later in life with an assortment of physical ailments also. So sucks for them (and their families)...and sucks for whatever health care system ends up paying for it (medical costs, etc)

I'd be glad to pay more for my fruits and vegetables knowing all (or most) of that work has been automated.

Lawyerliz said...

So, what are they to do?

Lawyerliz said...

Poverty tends not to stay at home

EngineerJim said...

With the introduction of robots and AI everywhere, we won't have any work and are probably headed for a Universal Basic Income (UBI).

LBD said...

The idea once again failed education system was to train for the new age to the level Americans where to do the high tech jobs. Instead we need imported labor who do want to work and can do it. So why keep importing more poverty? Seems there is a lesson in weakness in there.

Yes Mike hard work does cause broken worn out bodies. Being a workaholic I have been paying the price for it. At least I made the bucks to cover my tail.

Lawyerliz said...

There is a sweek spot in the middle where we get enough but not too much exercise.

Lawyerliz said...

Dow down a smidge.

Lawyerliz said...

Does thinking too much break your head??

Lawyerliz said...

Scientists say. . Catz like people.

Rob Dawg said...

My eldest the botanist ends up in the field a few times a year. Tomato harvest season it is muck boots and sun hat. The company is testing a $1m tomato picker. Picks the fruit gently and sorts right then which further reduces the number of times handled and shortens time to table which means picking closer to optimum. Samples are tested for sugars, gases, firmness, etc. by the machine real time in the field. Sometimes someone needs to crawl under and unclog the picker chamber thus the need for a botanist with a masters in agronomy.

Rob Dawg said...

Does thinking too much break your head??

Clear thinking after too long in an echo chamber can feel like that.

Rob Dawg said...

Scientists say. . Catz like people.

Clearly another case of the catz controlling the scientists to keep the hoomins from discovering the true owner/pet relationship.

Lawyerliz said...

Cheshire cat grin.

Lawyerliz said...

You mean they won't be hard as rocks?

Mike said...

The company is testing a $1m tomato picker.

I've seen a similar set-up for growing/picking strawberries over in Japan. They have laser devices running along tracks next to the plants...they continuously move over the field...checking the fruit for size/ripeness and sending data back to the control room..they even blow a puff of air at the fruit if they detect an insect on it...pretty cool..

Lawyerliz said...

I was gonna give a good report on wells Fargo,but they have reverted to last minute torture on my son's closing after assurances that all was well.

Lawyerliz said...

Silly me. Part of a page didn't all scan. They could have discovered this yesterday.

Rob Dawg said...

You mean they won't be hard as rocks?

Yes! People think they are being overwhelmed by the tech revolution. The biotech revolution is more than ten times evolving faster and more than ten times more pervasive. I see some horrible (thalidomide) errors but I also see many many more problems solved.

While it was a few days or weeks before the internet was invented there are a few friends still around to confirm that I said if you could manage to live until 2030 you could choose to live forever. No reason 40 years later to change that prediction.

Lawyerliz said...

Cat jumped up and is purring at me. She likes me dammit!

Lawyerliz said...

Did I post about something fairly simply made mice live youthfully 20% longer?

Rob Dawg said...


Lawyerliz3:17 PM
Did I post about something fairly simply made mice live youthfully 20% longer?


Beer.

Lawyerliz said...

I just got a spam phone call from Miami in Spanish.

The problem with the form was. . . A missing. . . . . Zip code!!!!

Lawyerliz said...

No. The are zombie cells that are senescent, that use resources of the body without contributing anything. Like that underwriter at Wells Fargo. . . Some drug got rid of them. The mice grew back their nice fur which had become patchy and started running around their cages and playing. Later certain enzymes and whatever were found to be more youthful. But before that anyone could see it

Mike said...

The problem with the form was. . . A missing. . . . . Zip code!!!!

I read somewhere the govt insured loans go thru an excruciating amount of underwriting "torture" (reviews, and more reviews, and more reviews..etc etc.) Probably blow-back from the sins of last decade...when traditional underwriting concepts (i.e. 5C's) was viewed as discriminatory.

Mike said...

Got a replacement credit card in the mail yesterday from my bank (old one was expiring in May)..and when I called in to activate it..I got a weird automated question from them..something along the lines of..."Federal law requires us to know our customers..so please respond to the following question..."Are you a citizen of the United States..yes or no"...

Weird because..first I've never been asked that before when activating a card (I've had the card for about ten years)..and second..how can taking someones word for it possibly pass for "knowing their customer"..

Lawyerliz said...

The letter was a gift letter, they would have qualified without the money.

Lawyerliz said...

I hate to say it but this in big ly supports Ts anti reg position.

LBD said...

Where is Mozilo now days?

Lawyerliz said...

He mutated into Trump. Only the Orange remains.

Lawyerliz said...

Last year's the Feds dropped a criminal case against him and he is still very very very rich, altho not a billionaire.

Lawyerliz said...

Odd factoid. New spies earn about 50k $.

Rob Dawg said...

The other day I get a cold call on the ancient land line. The first thing out of the caller's mouth; {"Are you the homeowner?" I replied; "I don't reveal sensitive financial information over the phone to people who don't pay me first." CLICK!

Rob Dawg said...

The Pride of Madirea didn't "pop" today.
This was all we got:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xnhTUByPbYQ/WNqZab3UKgI/AAAAAAAAI9w/fpt0tH6ByrsV6LZNd8pvosMLWYufZOGVgCLcB/s1600/SAM_1389.jpg

Elizabeth Merceret said...

???

Elizabeth Merceret said...

The son will close on his house on Friday.
Hub is having a guest editorial published in Florida today online Sat nite, in paper on Sunday.
Yay.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Wakey wakey East Coasters.

LBD said...

Good Morning!

Cool and cloudy today but no rain.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Editorial will have his picture.
About Trumps order Federal agency's stop mitigation climate change, ordered by O.

Elizabeth Merceret said...

Military thinks this is really serious problem.

LBD said...

Maybe we should bomb the offenders. I really think the problem is over sold and the rest of the world is not going to contribute. Backing off and examining is in order. IMO

Lawyerliz said...

NASA lives on the seashore. I live on a barrier island on my 6 inch alp. Which I freely chose. New York City is in danger as we saw with Sandy. There are some thoughts now that global warming may be caused by other stuff too. By the reputable.
Not studying it will not make it go away. Rich people just don't want to pay for anything. As Edison pointed out, he was always finding lots of things that didn't work. You keep on trucking.

LBD said...

When China, India, and the rest of the world steps up to our standards then we can see what can be done. We have cleaned up a lot. New York is going to sink if the rest do little or nothing. IMO.

Lawyerliz said...

Trump has no standards. Have you seen his position. On coal?

It's ok to dump horrible waste in rivers, for example.
The rich are free to be irresponsible, the poor aren't.

Lawyerliz said...

We are cleaning up because corporations doing those things were forced to.

Lawyerliz said...

I am tidying up my house because the immenrnt arrival of the maids is forcing me to.

Rob Dawg said...

Good morning all. The weeds beckon once again. At least this morning it appears that they didn't catch back up overnight.

Climate change is real. One sure giveaway that an activist/interventionist isn't armed with science is when they call the other side deniers.

The US should continue to invest in climate research. Three reasons. The current state is so slipshod that it needs a firmer basis. Second the ancillary benefits are profound from crop yields to energy savings. Heck, even insurance costs would come down in parallel with uncertainty.

Thing is "mitigation" is a case of fire, ready, aim. In the 1970s mitigation would have meant covering portions of the ice cap with carbon black. Obama's policies are agenda in search of justification. They are rightly scrapped. Part of this has got to be a shift away from the magic molecule nonsense. It has twisted everything it has touched for far too long. The EPA finding of CO2 as a pollutant is an extreme example. Below 160ppm and all plant life dies. Is that anyone's definition of pollutant?

Climate research should be consolidated. I would prefer under NOAA. Satellites of course remain with NASA but not the mission. This is common for other missions already.

Mike said...

re: climate change..the local news had a segment the other night on the burgeoning wine industry up here in WA. Supposedly the vineyards/grapes are becoming first class...to the point where California wineries are importing Washington grapes to make their wines with..

Lawyerliz said...

Hub agrees, except that NOAA is having its money cut and NASA is being increased, at least for now.

Lawyerliz said...

Because its warmer?

Rob Dawg said...

Wetter. The drought provided the impetus.

Lawyerliz said...

In the extremely long term, thousands of years, we are going into an ice age.

Rob Dawg said...

The pic that was supposed to post yesterday.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sto0YbIkvgM/WNxXkFLFIAI/AAAAAAAAI-Q/CqOhB_2XzdkC9w0bHbU0vuxYtJoyo-S0wCLcB/s1600/SAM_1391.jpg

LBD said...

LL your going extreme already. I am not saying dump everything but stop and proceed with balance in respect to the rest of the world. I you buy stuff from China, India, etc. you are probably growing the pollution problem. Seems I can't get over the science community claimed we where going in to the ice age in the 70's. It appears we are still coming out of one. Climate change is probably natural and the debate is what does man contribute to it. Does a bear shit in the woods? Pollution? My guess is in the long run man will contribute little. A few big volcanoes pop and mans contribution may be insignificant. IMO.

Lawyerliz said...

I try not to buy stuff from China, for all kinds of reasons.

Yeah. There's Yellowstone. Doesn't mean we shouldn't study volcanos or other pollution.

Lawyerliz said...

And yeah, as a kid we were gonna freeze. Doesn't mean it's ok to dump coal ash or chickens shit in the water

Cinco-X said...

No joy in mudville?

Rob Dawg said...

nPOIC seems to have realized too late what happened.

Mike said...

hope they don't come over here..

LBD said...

Quick look and it seems to be an echo chamber of three. Poor NPOIC.

Rob Dawg said...

Outsider, Josap, Yoringe, even Bearly. They have been invited. Horses and water something something...

Mike said...

yeah..that's a good group. Bearly enjoys tangling with the libs so I see why he likes it there..

LBD said...

I would be Happy if they moved over here.:)

Rob Dawg said...

Now that I'm hosting Tom Stone content we might see more variety.

Inflammatory new post up.

Tome Stone content post later today.

Cinco-X said...

Lol... Still, it's a nicely designed site.

Cinco-X said...

Lemme guess... Sum luk, eecon, and comrade jerkinoff?

PRCalDude said...

Welp, this thread is proof California is doomed. Illegals from Mexico are costing the state $25 billion, displacing American kids from public schools due to the need to provide ESL instruction to low-achieving poors, and displacing American parents from neighborhoods filled with immigrant crime, and the biggest concerns from Americans in this thread are, "Won't someone think of the Mexican children?" and "Who will pick the vegetables?"

We amended the Constitution to give former slaves citizenship. We didn't amend it to give birthright citizenship to the children of every third-world squatter.

Civilizations die. When this one dies, you can go look into the mirror to find the cause.