Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed A poor Kansas farmer, barely kept his family fed,
Then one day he was drillin' for some crude,
And up through the ground came a subsidized food.
Corn that is, ethanol gold, Brazilian tea.
Well the first thing you know ol Jed's a etanol-aire,
Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there"
Said "Californy is the place you ought to be"
So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly.
79 comments:
Foist?
first and murst
YYYAAAY!!!
dam steph!
yay Steph!
Special Ed..
YYYyaaaayyy
Ugh, I hate subsidies. I really don't like the billions they've pumped into the ethanol industry. Worry not, gas will eventually get expensive enough that fuel alternatives will be affordable, it's only a matter of time, no government intervention necessary.
Besides which, it drives up the price of tortillas. All the tortilla-eaters out there (not an epithet, and I include myself) pay the price for massive ethanol plants to crank out expensive gasoline substitutes.
PV,
You get today's EN Prize in Economic literacy. Ethanol is a lousy use of corn and only exists because of political influence. We'd be much better off paying market for Brazilian cane ethanol but ADM doesn't get paid. and make no mistake, it ain't Bushies, it is every elected official in on this one. That means the Dem majority in the Congress.
Turn your swords into plowshares. And then turn the last four inches of midwestern topsoil into greenhouse gasses.
Lost Cause,
I hear you. I live in SoCal and also drive more than average. Thus the would be social dictators label me a polluter. My air cleaning Olive Trees and carbon fixating landscaping, xeriscaping, etc. Don't count. That I fixate ten urban dwellers worth every year doesn't matter because I drive 14,000 instead of 12,000 miles annually.
Near as my abilities allow ethanol as transportation fuel is 20% negative return. The wierd thing is all other things held constant the higher diesel goes the less efficient ETOH production becomes.
did you see cnn? is that casey?
I used to "rush" those same seats for $2. Yes, I feel olde. Back then cel phones were not a problem and anyone who could afford a pager wasn't at those performances. People were polite. Just goes to show you what happens when Dukakis raised the drinking age and made personal gun ownership all but illegal.
@Anon 1:10
What?? Who?? where??
To quote Baldtard: "Data please"
I just noticed that IAFF has an inbound link from http://fuckingasshole.wordpress.com
Step @ 12:36 - you just made me bust out laughing
Never quite understood that corn mixture. I drive a diesel and watched a documentary recently on using used restaurant veggie oil in the engine. Apparently you don't even need to modify the engine...just strain out the bits of food & add some white spirit. Pennies per pound but I don't know if that's the method I want to use to save the environment. But its warm enough now to put the top down to reduce using the air con so maybe that will help? :)
And all these new words on EN! Murse, Foist...it's only a matter o' time before someone yells MOIST!
And on that note - G'night!
@ Kev
Anytime, dahling.
Ethanol, one of my favorite topics.
In short, it's a total waste as a stand-alone fuel, but it's great as an octane booster. If we were to focus more on it as a blend stock, and not a magic bullet, all the better.
More interesting to me: bio diesel. Bio can be made from just about anything, and oil burners get fantastic mileage. With the new offering coming for '08 from auto manufacturers, I think people are going to be super impressed with new diesels, and might just get everyone to forget altogether about ethanol. At least I hope so.
-jbjbj
@Akubi
Oddly appropriate, n'est pas?
@bemused
As usual; thanks for the visual (of course it doesn't help that my mind is permanently gutterified). Sweet dreams :)
Anything to keep the combustion engine relevant, as they say.
The one that really makes me laugh is the hydrogen car.
Talk about crappy stall tactics.
Wow. Where to begin? I really know this stuff. Not just arrogant RCS puffery fodder abour me being some self appointed demigod thing. I know IC combustion. Ethanol but it's great as an octane booster yeah but only up to a point and then only at the expense of energy content and corrosion/wear. You have to understand the perversities of the last two generations of air pollution attacks. California "gas" pollutes 10% less than regular fuel per gallon. What they don't mention is California gas has 15% less energy per gallon resulting in more consumption. TANSTAAFL.
Bemused-
Yes you can make bio from used oil without any mods to your engine. There are caveats however: One is filtration. You need to filter the hell out of used veggie oil. Another is your warranty. Some manufacturers won't honor your warranty if the suspect that you are making your own fuel. Lastly, veggie oil has a terrible cloud point, and needs optimal temperatures to keep from gelling.
I think our best bet is converting coal to oil.
We have so much coal in this country. Enough to put Saudi Arabia to shame! It is my understanding that it can be converted to diesel fuel and compete with $60/barrel oil. We just don't have the refining infrastructure yet because oil prices haven't this high for very long.
Rob-
I should have clarified a little more. Ethanol is a great octane booster to a fuel that already meets EPA spec. Bumping an EPA 87 or 88 octane to 91 or 92 with small batches of ethanol is quite cost effective, especially if you are outside of a refinery area and can't add your own ethers.
Regardless, I don't stand behind ethanol. Not even a little. Bio diesel? Yes please.
-dfounded
Yes, coal to oil is a great option, but the NIMBY's hate it.
JBJBJ,
Yes. EN is a really dangerous place to leave out details. I am constantly and pleasantly surprised by the quality of participants.
Octance supplent; fine. Energy contributor; not yet. In bringing a greater fraction of the crude into the fuel spectrum; great. As a source? No.
Biodiesel is great, it represents energy diversion rather rthan waste disposal.
Filter the french fies, smell like a KFC, more power to you. Lobby Congress and garner subsides; screw you.
UK site on bio-diesel
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php
One disadvantage I know of is that the car smells like a fast food outlet.
Greasecar.com has a kit for 100% biodiesel, less than one large bill.
My Jetta TDI has about 12,000 miles left on the warrenty, then it's off to the conversion.
Actually, another tank is added, usually in the spare tire well, and the vehicle MUST be started with diesel, brought to running temp, and then the switch is thrown.Before shutting off, the switch MUST be thrown again, so there is diesel in the line for starting.
As soon as enough people begin using this fuel, it will become illegal, as it is in the UK, (road tax/fuel tax issues).
If you want to see what the corn subsidy will look like in 20 years, just check the sugar industry....
LA got the domestic price of sugar set back in the days of Huey Long and followed by his son Russell. It is a disaster for the consumer and a gold mine for a few sugar cane growers. After seeing the "automoney" from the government, sugar beet growers cashed in on the goody.
...it will become illegal, as it is in the UK, (road tax/fuel tax issues).
It's only a fuel tax issue. It isn't illegal in the UK so long as you declare it the the HMRC and pay duty on the amount of fuel you use.
The kits are neat, but why not just mix it into your tank at say a 20/80% blend? No need for a conversion kit, and it's no different from the bio's you buy from any of the truck stops, say along the I-40. $200/yr saving in your fuel bill. Not too shabby.
jbjbj - that's why that website is useful to people like me in the UK. I haven't put any veg oil in my diesel yet but that website has sources of what works almost "straight" and what needs modifying and how to mod it.
Stephanie J.,
Did you notice IAFF was listed as "The Dad of all Train Wrecks" under FUCKTARD HALL OF FAME?
First
Looks like Nigel "Power Bottom" Swaby has been busy over at IAFF trolling about Rob's DUI.
Yeah, Nigel, we know.
And it's still irrelevant.
Ya stupid fucktard.
Police say an armed Uzbek man has taken eight hostages
@Casey Fannnn
Did it occur at a real estate seminar? I called that one a few days ago...
Sad to say there's going to be a lot of this in the US before long. Money troubles all too often lead to family on family violence in the immigrant population because social mores take longer to change than financial ones. My largerst concern is for the SE Asian populations of the California Central Valley where the most and most recent lending abuses have occured and those among a disproortionatly ethnic populations. Not because of any racism but because demographics made them the next in line.
@Casey Fannnnn:
I think you meant
Police say (an armed)a crazy Uzbek (man)looser™ has (taken)slept through (eight)five (hostages)foreclosures
Tthe other day, yesterday ?, mention was made of the vehicles that FB's were disposing of to service their HELOCS.
Anyone know of any East Coast sites that sell off-lease,repos?
I'm really looking for a pickup truck, I have no use for SUV's.
Thanks.
Hey ExUrbs,
It’s Friday and therefore time for another 6 Degrees of Casey Serin™ challenge: Donald Duck.
The last "Rob Cote DUI" post at IAFF quotes lyrics from Frank Zappa's "Help I'm a Rock".
Somehow I don't think Nigel is into Zappa...
I really hate that ethanol is being touted as a replacement for oil.
I work in the dairy industry and fuck how are we going to feed the cows now that the price of corn has doubled in the past few months? Please expect your daily prices to greatly increase in the next few months.
A few things about the ethanol debate that I read on the webs:
1. Castro has said using food for gas is monsterous. (I kinda agree, there are people starving and we are putting food in our cars!!)
2. Freakanimics blog had an interesting take that obesity rates may decline as HFCS is replaced by real cane sugar. HFCS is specualated to be a big contributer to fattening america.
I like the idea of turing coal into gas. Think of what the manufactuting jobs would do to our economy. West Virgina as a powerhouse! We could give all the laid off auto workers and IBM employees jobs.
The bio-deisel thing is also interesting. Algae grows quickly.
Lastly, did anyone else read the WIRED article a few months ago about the windfarms in the Gulf of Mexico being erected on damaged oil wells? It apeared to be a brillant idea and the placement was perfect. They were also very cheap as the infrastructure already existed.
Coal gasification is promising and hopefully we'll graduate to plamsa charged particle combustion. Unfortunately we don't have any public energy policy and the technology is epensive to develop and far too easy to steal so there's not private incentive. Besides the US is absolutely insane when it comes to some energy ideas. No offshore windmills near Martha's Vineyard and in my backyard the denial of BHPs offshore LNG transship terminal.
Heck, another 20% increase in efficiency of solar and/or a 50% drop in installed costs and we'll be swimming in oil. I know that isn't obvious but really.
@Rob Dawg
I think you might like
I see many eco types spouting, but not walking the walk... here is one with a difference. Also uses electric cars, and still he is a net generator. The biggest problem he had was that PG&E tried to prevent him from connecting (for when the sun goes down). He built a battery backup (about 1 week), but still fought PG&E on principle.
His site is an interesting one to explore.
Biggest problem is panel cost, followed by size. There have been instances in other locations where the power companies have tried to block people who have solar panels, including developments.
Aww crap.. a dangling link again... sorry. Sometimes happens. Doesn't show up in the preview though.
Oh Christ on a Crutch... This person obsessing on the DUI dwells and nags worse than a woman with PMS does to her man.
It's been milked, nobody cares, shut the fuck up already.
I vote that people who see it mentioned on the Special Ed blogs of Nigel and Casey, that they not further propagate the boring bullshit here. Thanks.
Lucky says "Peep"
Is Lucky still Peeping?
Now Stephanie has another distracting duck...
While I definitely like the concept of clean air (live near a highway and feel more and more as though I may as well be back in L.A. these days) and non-dependence on fossil fuel and the crazy fucktards and stupid ass wars that come with it, the current ethanol strategy strikes me as highly entropic. I dislike entropy and feel there is a very simple adjustment everyone can make in their own lives: drive as little as possible. Consider where you are going and whether ther is any point in actually going there.
Ethanol causes more asthma, which sucks. I drive about 30 minutes a week. Usually I ride my bike.
The unfortunate economics is: More efficient applications of fuel will ultimately lead to more fuel consumption. But it still seems like the right thing to do. I hate defeatists and resource-sucking hogs. Like my neighbor and his Escalade. I hate when he fills up his garbage can so he uses mine. That encapsulates everything I hate about resource-sucking hogs.
Somehow I don't think Nigel is into Zappa...
I've said it before but it bears repeating: I've seen no evidence whatever that Nigel and the DUI guy are one and the same, and I'm more than ever convinced that they're not.
It's also becoming increasingly obvious that the DUI guy effectively shot his wad a few days into the creation of his blog, has completely failed to dig up anything else, and has nothing more to say.
Yeah I really don't know whether that guy thought he'd find a trove of Cote transgressions, but man has he really beat this dead horse into oblivion. Nobody gives a shite. Let it drop fer Christ's sake. Reeks of Camp Idiot where people are purposely stupid just to get people irritated.
"verpuffen"?
to deflagrate
to blow out
to decrepitate
to fizzle out
Ha ha ha ha ha ha --- yup, that's our Casey, in one word!
The wierd thing is all other things held constant the higher diesel goes the less efficient ETOH production becomes.
-----------
It takes 4 gallons of oil to make 5 gallons of Ethanol.
and
Do not forget that in the 80's all cane sugar as a food sweetener was REPLACED WITH CORN SYRUP because corn sweetener was so cheap, ergo corporation profits obviously go up overnight.
Today, corn syrup is in every processed food we eat from salsa to soft drinks, to hot dogs, to desserts. Every where cane sugar was in the 80's, today there is corn sugar.
Just a small economic wrench, I reckon.
I am sure Pepsi's and Coke's Board of Directors are not happy.
I just want to ad that the only place GMO Corn belongs in in a gas tank, imo.
Never touch the stuff if I can help it.
Here's a neat bit of synergy:
contaminant to fuel
I can't find a citation, but I have heard it said (well, 'read' it said ?) that wheatgrass might turn out to be a better biomass for conversion to ethanol than corn. It's certainly easier to grow and harvest than corn and allows more harvests per year (at least in the more southern states).
This is an interesting conversation you guys are having. I strongly believe that the environment should be saved when it's convenient. For example, at Thanksgiving Point Golf Course, I always use one of their fuel efficient electric carts rather than drive my BMW 325i around the spectacular 18-hole layout with 10,000 trees and 55
acres of sand. This is because much like the world renowned Johnny Miller, who is a golfer and designed the course, I, Nigel Swaby, am also a golfer.
I also save the environment every day by having my pool indoors, rather than in a wildlife refuge, and by using fuel efficient koi in my pond. Contrary to popular belief (screw you Legion), my bald pate has nothing to do with male pattern baldness. In fact, I CHOOSE to reject hair because I'm doing my part to reflect unwanted cosmic radiation away from the Earth's surface. Another point I would like to make is that my pleather Members Only was made by space-saving Malaysian child laborers who consume on average half of the resources of a fat lazy American worker.
Finally, my new paperless mortgage pilot program is doing it's part to combat deforestation. In this program, I save trees by not brokering any new mortgages in 2007. Compared to the amount I did in 2006, I hope to save a small sapling!
Of course, the underlying point that everyone seems to be missing is that oil comes from algae, that millions of years ago was mostly caused by the sun.
Energy per gallon of gas is lower now, mainly due to ethanol. Since California changed from MTBE to ethanol, the gold rush has begun. California's reputation as friendly to the environment is overblown. But it is amazing how much better the smog is, at least the coast is nice most of the time.
Isn't that saw grass, not wheatgrass? The goal there is to produce ethanol from cellulose.
'Heck, another 20% increase in efficiency of solar and/or a 50% drop in installed costs and we'll be swimming in oil. I know that isn't obvious but really.'
Not only it isn't obvious, it is also pretty much wrong.
Oil is essentially used for transportation, and to a much lesser extent as a feedstock for various other materials (plastics, fertilizers, etc.) Now it is to a certain extent true that in Europe, with its functioning electric /hi-speed rail network, oil can be displaced both in road vehicles and to some extent for intra-continental flights. As for America - well, you need to build such things first, and the piggy bank was smashed open years ago - inside were credit cards and option ARMs, which led to all sorts of productive investments - granite countertops and stainless steel appliances, for example. Whereas the stodgy Germans invested in wind and solar - yes, even with all its myriad geographic disadvantages, Germany is the world leader in PV. (Somewhat outdated, but good overview - http://www.wind-works.org/FeedLaws/GermanSolarPVOSEAPR.html )
The major problem with the availability of oil is its looming lack of availability. Living in today's world, with today's technology, the amount of oil being produced has been declining (slightly), even as the price continues to climb. In other words, price doesn't quite seem to be the problem, at least if you view oil in economic terms - the market seems to be demanding more oil. (Admittedly, the oil industry is a perverse beast, and price is not the best way to measure it.)
Personally, I prefer to look at oil in geologic terms. After all, I'm sure there remains huge amounts of stranded gold in California too, and it is all just a plot to keep the supply stable. After all, if this stranded gold was brought onto the market, California wouldn't have to worry about its deficits.
Once oil is burned, the oil fairy won't put it back into the ground for a long, long time. Though it looks as if we may create ideal conditions for shallow seabeds for oil to form in again. Maybe even in many of the same locations - who says humanity can't plan over the long term?
And remember - oil production has not increased, even as the price has. Either economics is worthless in terms of its truism that a higher price leads to higher production as profit is sought, or maybe, geology trumps economics in the end. Nah, that can't be it - reality is never as convincing as what we believe in.
The oil business is very boom-and-bust. You can be sure that another bust is coming, and probably a lot sooner than anyone expects. I can't wait to see the bastards go bankrupt.
'Heck, another 20% increase in efficiency of solar and/or a 50% drop in installed costs and we'll be swimming in oil. I know that isn't obvious but really.'
Not only it isn't obvious, it is also pretty much wrong.
The major problem with the availability of oil is its looming lack of availability.
Ohhhh a yapping peakinese has decided to speak up.
* "Hurry, before this wonderful product is depleted from Nature's
laboratory!"--advertisement for "Kier's Rock Oil," 1855
* ". . . the United States [has] enough petroleum to keep its kerosene
lamps burning for only four years . . . "
--Pennsylvania State Geologist Wrigley, 1874
* ". . . although an estimated two-thirds of our reserve is still
in the ground, . . . the peak of [U.S.] production will soon be
passed--possibly within three years."
--David White, Chief Geologist, USGS, 1919
* " . . . it is unsafe to rest in the assurance that plenty of
Petroleum will be found in the future merely because it has been in the
past." --L. Snider and B. Brooks, AAPG Bulletin, 1936
peak oil is a myth.
Higher Prices don't induce higher supply on its on, you have to have an outward movement of both supply and demand.
A movement in price encourages supply increases, and decreases demand. Additionally, and increase in the price of oil increases demand in substitutes.
Once we reach the Mendoza Line on oil prices, you can say hello to alot more R&D and production of alternatives. The line is approximately at 75 dollars a barrell.
I heard of Savinar's OIL AGE IS OVER, so I downloaded a free copy of it. I also read many contentious denials of his presentation. The true story seems to be told by Savinar's current actions. He urged readers to make MAD MAX-style fortifications and get ready for post-apocalyptic cyborg alien flaming hell. I knew someone who knew him personally, so I got in touch with this person, who told me Savinar was sleeping on friends' couches, had no car, and was in no way preparing for the "coming oil crash". Savinar (I was told) claimed he couldn't afford to get ready for the end of days he predicted. I wondered why he quit working as a lawyer if it meant cutting off his source of finances to prepare for the horror to come.
$75-80 sounds about right which is why the oil countries won't ever let it get there. Their only leverage is to keep the price under the cost of alternatives. That's why there will never be such a thing as $120 oil. At those levels so many substitutes or equivilents or efficiency investments become cost effective.
Fun times:
Past Peak Oil discussions.
Last time I was in the US I caught a few episodes of something called "Living With Ed." I don't know if it had much of a half-life but it focused on Ed Begley, Jr (environmentalist) & his wife (glam hollywood actress). You get the premise - sort of like Green Acres of Studio City.
There's a guy that not only talks the talk but walks the walk. I'm not ready to hop a bicycle to charge my toaster in the morning but he has some good thoughts. Can't help but feel a little sorry for his wife though. I can just see her in the hair & make-up trailer now. Stylist 1: Girl, what's up with your hair?
Wife: I am forced to use recycled rainwater. Quick, please wash my hair with Evian like Sarah Michele Gellar.
Sort of on the topic of alternative fuel sources:
AACHI & SSIPAK. An animated film from director Joe Bum-jin about a futuristic world powered entirely by human feces. With the government anxious to control this sole, important source of energy, they install special sensors on its citizens' anuses to monitor production, while controlling the populace by distributing addictive popsicles. This quirky feature animation has already been pre-sold to multiple countries, and MTV has licensed rights to create an animated series on the same theme and characters. This film is now reportedly completed.
View the ultra-violent preview here.
@Rob ....
if you haven't visited her site for awhile, check out Stephanie J.
First she was known for ball-busting steel-toed Doc Martens which made the men tremble and the lesbians fall for her.
Then we found about her dirty jeep. The guys went gaga & the lesbians fell even harder.
Shortly thereafter we learned that she knows about hauling hazmat. The men formed a fan club & I am sure that earned her a few partnership requests from the other team.
Now, according to her blog, she has - quite literally - a life-giving rack. Wow. She's like a Bloomin' Onion...each layer gets better!
(with no Tony Soprano around I thought someone had to pick up the slack by supping martinis & typing combination)
Re:
>>AACHI & SSIPAK<<
Damn! I downloaded that DVD months ago, but I forgot I had it here in the stack of movies. It's been finished for a long time. My version is subtitled in English, not dubbed. Must find it and move it higher in the pile...
Trawling though various blogs I came across QuiggleMe.com. The guy is a mortgage broker and used to have dealings with New Century and has blogged about sub-prime loans and the like (hence me finding the blog). But what he is also heavily into is bio-diesel and is blogging about that too, so maybe worth checking it out if anyone is interested.
Again, what will be really interesting is what will happen to our prices of food sweetened with corn when corn is a high priced commodity and not on the cheap any more????
We can not go back.
We won't notice the price increase. There is already too much corn. But really poor people (like Mexicans) have already noticed. Google "Mexico Tortilla Crisis."
Here's another synergy
It's a shame that it requires many square miles of hot desert land and access to seawater...
And oh! I think I want to come back as a duck (In Steph's front yard)
'Ohhhh a yapping peakinese has decided to speak up.'
Not really - I was only pointing out a couple of truisms.
The first being that oil's current major economic role is to be burned for transportation - something that future generations are likely to marvel at in the same way we marvel at how our great-great-great etc. grandparents burned most of the planet's whales for light, before the light bulb was discovered. Not in the nick of time for whales, but then, to make an omelette, who cares about hatching eggs?
The other truism is that oil production declines due to geology. This has been true in such cases as the North Sea, the United States (Lower 48 alone, and Lower 48 plus Alaska plus all deep water plus all 4D computer technology plus all the other improvements in oil recovery since the 1970s, plus rising prices for almost a decade, minus a fair degree of neglect while the price of crude languished for a decade - price plays a strange role in the oil industry, no question), Romania (which experienced peaks separated by several generations, showing the accuracy of your quotes, at least over several generations, though not for the last one, where decline has been constant, after the communists were replaced), and the list will continue to the bitter end - at some point, the fact that individual wells, fields, regions, and planets reach a point where decline inexorably occurs as the oil is depleted remains empirical fact.
Of course, using today's technology on today's fields is one limit - much oil is currently left in the ground, and a way to recover it may be discovered.
Thus making your quotes applicable, until those methods also reach their limit. In terms of things like oil, created in finite quantities over geologic periods of time, burning it means that at some point, the oil fairy will no longer sprinkle allah's tears so Americans can pay their exurban mortgages.
But by then, we'll all use something else, right? Of course, as America has neglected what other people use today - ICE, TGV, maglev - I'm sure that for America's innovative and dynamic financial engineers, now looking for new fields, it should be no problem to develop an alternative - after all, the market creates reality with the invisible hand. Who needs engineers or skilled workers, when what is really required are skilled lawyers - infinite copyright seems more in reach than perpetual motion, with a better cash flow to boot.
Neither of us know the future - the recent past however, is flat oil production in the face of steadily increasing prices.
Happy hurricane season - personally, I still remember Agnes with deep nostalgia, but I am from the East Coast, not the Gulf region. Notice, the intelligence of burning fossil fuels is an entirely different discussion, and quite honestly, the more compelling one in Europe. Though most likely, we will burn everything before we change - our beliefs are more important than facts, after all.
Who needs alternative energy when you can just annex Iraq and Iran? Me and Dick will take care of everything, just repeal that pesky term-limits law.
Tax oil a lot and then do not tax any alternative energy. Then let the market work.
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