Repeat until understood: There already currently exists, in place, fully staffed and funded a huge interlocking set of government programs designed to grant relief from too much debt. It is called bankruptcy. To subvert or undermine either the terms or stigma associated with bankruptcy is to fundamentally abandon the principles of capitalism, sense of fair play and merchantistic honor system of taxation and commerce that have served our society so well. A FB or FL bailout abrogates the contract with the rest of us who played by the rules. Ultimately the is but one operative principle of government; Tax something, get less of it. Subsidize something, get more. Why on earth are we even considering subsidizing irresponsible lending/borrowing?
Tuesday, April 17, 2007
Prescription Advice
Repeat until understood: There already currently exists, in place, fully staffed and funded a huge interlocking set of government programs designed to grant relief from too much debt. It is called bankruptcy. To subvert or undermine either the terms or stigma associated with bankruptcy is to fundamentally abandon the principles of capitalism, sense of fair play and merchantistic honor system of taxation and commerce that have served our society so well. A FB or FL bailout abrogates the contract with the rest of us who played by the rules. Ultimately the is but one operative principle of government; Tax something, get less of it. Subsidize something, get more. Why on earth are we even considering subsidizing irresponsible lending/borrowing?
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34 comments:
First!
It shows '0' comments and I get excited. Only to see I'm not truly the first one here. Damn!
Rob, it distresses me that the government wishes to consider this subsidizing people and companies that make bad choices. It truly punishes all. Those that make bad choices find out that there are no negative ramifications to their actions and those that make good choices have to pay for those that can't.
I wonder how many other Caseys are out there who don’t happen to publicize their situation... California foreclosures have increased 802% since last year. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/17/BUGCQP9MBO1.DTL
Something tells me Dawg has completed his taxes, raised his leg to pee his signature, and is back.
What a looser to have a job, make money, and pay taxes.
So what exactly is the story about the sub-prime bailout?
I thought it was a bunch of talking but no action?
I also thought that since we kind of spent way too much money on a war, and that we've got all this debt, that a bailout would umm, just move the debt to new debtors.
Sounds fabulous.
People should read contracts. Or alternatively, force the companies that did high-pressure tactics into bankruptcy, seize their assets, and give em to the folks that they duped.
Casey is in the position to speak from experience about the process of foreclosure, but not avoiding foreclosure. He needs outside help for that position.
Wouldn't Casey need a fracking license for this?
Also what's with all the similar sign offs from "supporters" at IAFF? Is it a hater thing or is Nigel thinking that non-haterz post their names like that. Odd that the sign offs are so similar. A poster may have seen another person do that but how could they with the moderation being what it is over there? Too odd to be real.
Look all of you Haterz,
I just LOVE Casey. If it weren't for all of you negative nellies, he would be a millionare! Why can't you just leave him and his best friend, that AWARD WINNING BLOGGER NIGEL alone? Casey and Nigel are two of the most wonderful and intelligent people ever!
Don't believe me? Just look at my .. oh shit.....Nigel's blog HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE.
- Really an anonymous person
- NOT Nigel
-NOT moderateing IAFF
-NOT ghost writing IAFF
-NOT posting under phony names
- NOT wishing I had the traffic of EN
-NOT proclaiming to be the best mortgage broker in the world but I don't own a house
I have a feeling we're going to hear a lot more of this bailout talk with major elections coming up next year. Hopefully it will just be that, a lot of talk. Talk grabs headlines... and votes. Bad theory. Bailout will only serve to help a very small minority of people while pissing off all the rule-abiding, mortgage-paying voters.
I think WE should help people in foreclosure!
Just think of it. Not only do we have A LOT of really smart people who comment here but in the new forums we could have a section devoted to FB's asking questions.
Not only would we be providing a public service (and banking some good karma)...we'd be kicking Casey yet again, IN TRUE HATERZ™ FASHION!
I agree with GameOver that we should have an FB resource, and heck, even get it decently high into the google search index too.
Bailing out the subprime, doesnt that just pass on the costs to those were acting responsibly?
What I would really like to see is a reworking of the consumer protection act to prevent lending institutions from enacting usurious contracts (30% interest credit cards, I'm looking at you!) and from things like jacking ALL your interest rates to the max if you only miss one payment to one account.
Also, they need to rework the disclosure forms that people sign at a closing so that there's a really easy to read table that shows EXACTLY what your monthly payment is going to be for the duration of the loan.
Bills like that, I'm all for.
Let's be clear: Casey doesn't really want to "help" people in foreclosure; what he really dreams of building is a funnel to refer his visitors out to the sharks.
HATERZ™
No, no, no, NO. Nigel invented the "haterz" variation; let's not give him the pleasure of letting it become a catchphrase.
Bailing out the subprime, doesn't that just pass on the costs to those were acting responsibly?
It does -- but then so does bankruptcy. But "bailout" also absolves any irresponsibility.
Great post, Dawg. And nice attention to detail™ in the image.
I thought WE owned the rights to Haterz(tm)
Casey Serin has signed the petition to have himself arrested. hehe. ;-)
Sock-puppety fun!
haterz
I am NOT a "hater".
I am a member of the reality-based community.
Rob-Dawg - I'm off topic but has this already been suggested for your forums:
Dawg-Style: For all things fashion and murse related.
Sprezz,
I think that is a good law. If I am current with Chase but went overlimit with say BofA I shouldn't get my rates jacked elsewhere. Now if BofA wants to do it, go ahead since I was overlimit and broke their ToS.
These companies make bank off of people and while I do not agree with bailing ANYBODY out of their financial messes, I do think we can show compassion as a society by telling the CC companies tough shit, you gave people more credit than YOU knew they could handle, so deal with it or cancel their charge priviledges. Raising somebody's rate because of another lender agreement is weak and greedy.
The CC companies got the BK law they always wanted so they should be told that they now have to bow to the people on this issue.
When you've got huge companies with a lot of smart, ruthless people on one side, and undereducated people on another side, the game is heavily stacked in favor of the companies, and I support some forms of consumer protection to keep companies from exploiting their advantage too much.
You cannot prevent people from overextending themselves financially, and we shouldn't try. But I don't think it's too much to recognize that with the great power of financial institutions, comes a responsibility to not abuse that power -- a reposnsibility they are not currently living up to.
@ Sprezz
I think we should encourage people not to over extend themselves. Or at least not subsidize them when they do it.
While I agree that financial institutions shouldn't abuse their power, isn't that true capitalism?
One final question: I still don't understand the business model of companies like NEW and LEND. They had to know that the music would stop at some point in time and they would be liable for a large amount of loan buy backs. Why would they trade 3-4 good years of profit for the death of the company?
FWIW, and on the subject of foreclosure advice: these two articles by Dan Melson, a loan officer and real estate agent who really knows what he's talking about are pretty interesting:
What Happens When You Can't Make Your Real Estate Loan Payment
Short Payoff
and also this one from the buyer's side:
Buyer's Basic Guide to The Foreclosure Market and REOs
His comments about denial seem very apposite to Casey's situation, as does his advice to sell *before* the Notice of Default makes the situation public and scuppers any chance of getting a good offer:
Many people who own properties headed for default are deep in Denial. Yes, this is often because something bad happened to them for reasons beyond their control. I'd be happier if those sorts of things didn't happen, but the amount of rescuing that's going to get done is minimal. There are very few White Knights running around, and the ones who claim to be White Knights are usually blackguards. Unless the seller knows of some factor that is going to change, this is the smart time to deal with the problem. Before the Notice of Default is recorded, nobody really knows but the owner and the bank. Once the Notice of Default hits, all the sharks come out because everyone knows the owner is in Dire Circumstances.
Melson's site is interesting throughout -- he's blunt, knowledgable, and writes with honesty and integrity. Pretty much the exact opposite of Nigel; and I'll bet his approach gains him a lot more business.
I don't understand how someone can get so over extended and so deep in dept as did our little snowflake unless they lie and cheat the lenders (both mortgage companies and credit card companies) without having to be accountable.
I would love to take my over $100,000 in "available" credit on my credit cards and going on a world cruise? But I don't because I know I would need to pay it back.
I for one believe there should be a "debtors" penalty (no prision because I don't want to pay to house and feed these losers). My idea - have them "work off" their debt by providing public service - such as cleaning highways. In snowflake's case, he would need to work every saturday for the next 35 years cleaning highways and public toilets to "pay off" his debts should he go BK.
Rob Dawg,
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. I'm nearing a blind rage with this ongoing bailout conversation, being touted by high-profile idiots. This kind of thing cannot be allowed to happen.
Dan Melson recommends Nigel.
Another interesting 'ripple effect' of the subprime implosion... A Sunday morning news show covered the topic and showed several couples with solid credit and six-figure incomes who can't refi their ARM's because banks can't sell their existing notes on the secondary markets.
First of all, I still think that anyone with an ARM when interest rates were so ridiculously low is a moron. But setting that aside, I just kept thinking that they can thank all of the Casey Serins out there for their lack of options.
Why would they trade 3-4 good years of profit for the death of the company?
Ogg think that bad for employee, good plan for executive. Executive get many rock bonus in good year, no penalty in bad.
Another day another government program.
Thanks Oog
I guess this is why I'm not in charge of a company. I would think longevity would be better for everyone, including upper management. But I guess if you just want to hit it big, cash out, and quit, it makes sense. If that's the case, it is kind of sad how this is playing out.
Actually, I just recommended one post of Salt Lake City, which may mention Casey Serin (whom I have somewhat less than zero sympathy for), but is really about adjusting expectations and working within the situation as it is, an issue many folks have trouble with - and which leaves them vulnerable to people who push predatory loans and properties they cannot afford. It's a good post. I have hit the subject more than once myself, most centrally in a post entitled, "Real Estate: Getting From Where You Are To Where You Want To Be"
FWIW, the last "lawnmower man" comment above wasn't me. Sockpuppets are everywhere these days aren't they?
Nice of you to drop by, Dan -- I've learnt a lot from the articles you've written.
NO, The last post wasn't mine. This is the real me!
Nigel didn't come up with Haterz, someone here did.
Nigel just whored it out to cafepress first, umm, murst.
Well said. I am going to quote you.
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