I think amnesty is a great idea. Blanket across the board, and not just one time only amnesty. It is the only practical and humane thing to do in preparation for establishing the changes in our current unworkable immigration policies. Not just people but employers.
Okay, just what is "amnesty?" Forgiveness without penalty for past transgressions. What is the single thing that amnesty is not? Permission to continue breaking the law.
55 comments:
First!
mwahahahaha
Dammit, r-boy, I was this >< close!
Murst! Superior to first in every way!
On the subject of amnesty:
Seeing that we're about to have a severe demographic imbalance of retired folks to working folks, we kind of need 12 million youngish working bodies. Definitely would help us out tax-wise.
Pretty much, I have disdain for folks who don't get a job and much respect for folks who do get a job. If you can get work, come on over.
It's not like they're taking jobs any current American citizen (generally speaking) wants. We gots edumacatisions
And how appropriate for the government bureaucrat here to get the first.
I could have had it... but I just had to get some coffee. This Early Rizer thing is hard. So is this Looser W-2 job. I need to make some Sweet Passive Income.
Murst is as superior to First as Nigel is superior to Rob.
I'm so pissed at the freakin' amnesty crap I don't even care about FIRST on this one.
Want to talk about fraud?....Mortgage fraud will be miniscule compared to immigration fraud. Massive, on a unimaginable scale. Add social services and voter/election fraud into the mix and we have a sure fire national disaster coming down the tracks.
I_am_pissed. Dammit, I AM PISSED...am I the only one who is?
The enraging thing is to watch all the crap friends have to go through to legally immigate to the US, or to get a visa to come to the US; and then watch us amnesty all the people who explicitly refused to go through that. We should make it very simple - be honest, and abolish all immigration controls. You show up at the border, and you're in. At least we could get rid of the immigration bureaucracy.
Oh - and at Bush's urging, we are apparently going to forgive back taxes as part of the amnesty. As Mark Steyn observed, the intelligent thing for all current US citizens is to destroy their ID and sign up for a Z visa - there are pretty good bennies involved. (And, you'll qualify for in-state college tuition in California - something that isn't true if you are a legal resident of, say, Nevada.)
Amnesty should be a last resort. We haven't attempted any real enforcement since Operation Wetback in the 50's. We should attempt real enforcement for a few years before we even consider amnesty.
I actually have a blog on this subject. It's more a repository of info/articles than my opinion:
http://elgabogringo.blogspot.com
Why you want to diss on Nigel? He has enough problems just being himself.
Only a few replies and already too much to talk about. R-Boy, we don't "need" more victims to join the ponzi scheme as retirement benefits are currenly structured. It is a mthematical imperitive that payouts be massively curtailed. Having more people partially vested only makes that harder not easier.
Illegal immigrant most certainly take th very best and more valuable jobs and replace them with the worst least efficient demaning labor jobs. They are the reverse of capital investment in technology and have left our agricultural heritage a century behind other american enterprises.
On the other hand, this may be Casey's chance for a new and better life. You want to go "under the radar"? Well, Good Things Are Coming™ - Konstantin Alexesevich "Smirnov" may soon be able to start a new life with a Z-visa and a new FICO score!
Oh boy are you gonna get a lot of flack.
As for punishing or rewarding people who come here from other countries to work a looser jobs...I guess you can see how that ties into the saga of serin. Casey is an Uzbek, but refuses to work.
The economy needs population growth to grow and prosper. This country has a long history of racism, and anti-immigrantion.
I think there a lot more important things to worry about, instead of this issue. Like ending the war in Iraq. And energy independence. It is like abortion. But I think it is backfiring on the republicans, which is fine with me.
Illegal immigration? Everybody does it. Kind of like speeding, copying CDs or committing felony mortgage fraud.
"Casey is an Uzbek, but refuses to work."
Yeah, but the rest of his family seems to work quite hard...
Posted on previous thread, but now On-Topic.
At 4:42 AM, Bohica said...
A bit off-topic, but this sell-out has got me PISSED !!!
I oppose the Senate immigration deal.
Until the EMPLOYERS of illegals are FORCED to pay taxes and insurance, this bill is a waste of time.
Until the border is SECURE, what will prevent employers from discarding the present crop of 'newly-legals" and hiring the next bunch of illegals.?
I have NO FAITH in the present leadership of the once great country, I believe 99.9% of the politicians are NOT working in the best interests of the United States.
aackk!!!
Don't let in any more cats! They eat all my fishy treats!!!
thpptt!!!
S_t_C
I saw a special last week on CNN or somewhere (Paula Zahn and a couple other idiots who didn't know what the hell they were talking about) regarding the mortgage crisis. One lady interviewed was hispanic and had gotten into an adjustable loan that has now risen and she will probably be foreclosed on. She claimed that she was unaware of the terms of her loan. Now here is where I almost exploded - she was speaking Spanish in the interview and did not speak English at all. However, SHE SIGNED DOCUMENTS THAT SHE COULD NOT READ. WTF???????? Let's have a little personal responsibility, shall we?
The CNN idiots were blaming the brokers for pretty much everything under the sun. I will admit that there are some scammers and unscrupulous types out there, but in my experience, the majority of people that take out these 2 year ARM's just look at the current monthly payment with no regard to what may happen down the road, regardless of how many times the broker/notary/closer explains it them, much like someone who buys their car based on the monthly payment - 72 month loan, no problem, just put me in the Escalade.
There are portions of a neighboring city where there are no English signs. I don't think people comprehend the social stresses those kinds of numbers introduce.
My point is that these mostly are Mexicans caused by the sun.
I haven't been following this closely but I have a question. With amnesty, what about those that come here legally with H1 visas? Do they still have to wait in line for a green card and then citizenship?
OT, but please add www.iamfacingtaxevasion.com to the list of potential blogs for young Snowflake. You know damn well that he's not paying taxes on any of the money he's bringing in.
oofa, this will be a touchy thread, this subject is a hot one - and about 30 years too late.
It's rant time. Skip this if you don't want to hear it, but Rob posted the topic. Feel free to disagree, I don't care, you still have that right.
I reject the "jobs americans don't want" nonsense, illegals are taking jobs in construction, foodservice, janitorial/maintenance, retail, everywhere - as an example, the illegals found working at major airports. Those are good paying UNION jobs.
I think amnesty is a travesty and the path of least resistance for the Fed - it's the easy solution, and ignores the root of the problem - corruption, dictatorships and the drug trade have ruined Mexico and South America, thus the flood of people out of those countries here.
We can send tanks to Iraq for "democracy", but we can't send them south? It makes no sense.
We cannot afford to take in the 20+ million people this plan calls for, the work required just to establish identity alone will swamp the Fed.
We learned what amnesty does under Reagan - not only did a smaller percentage of illegals apply for amnesty, but the flood over the border increased dramatically to take advantage of it - watch the number of illegals rise from the lowball 12-20 million to double that.
We cannot afford to house, cloth, feed, educate, and employ that many people over night - and since this amnesty allowes for relatives to be brought in easier, it will swamp and collapse the social programs infrastructure of major urban areas, who are already teetering on the edge of the abyss.
I also find that there's a tax amnesty in the legislation to be repugnant beyond description.
We, as a wealthy nation, have an obligation to be charitable, but it has gone far beyond charity. This is a wholesale betrayal of anyone who has followed the law and paid their taxes, or, even worse, it's an outrage and slap in the face to those who immigrated here legally.
It has nothing to do with racism, and I'm fucking tried of being called one. I would feel the same if this were Russians, Africans, Korean, Austrian, or Greenfuckinglanders. We cannot assimilate and aquire the equal of several European countries, and not have it become a bloody great farce - especially a group who are resistant to true assimilation as already demand things be ctared to them as illegals, hence the Spanish driving tests, "Press 2 for Spanish" and other nonsense.
I'll go this far - if this amnesty passes as written, there will be bloody battles in our streets within a decade. Every community these illegals move into becomes barrio overnight, with the attendant crime, drug trade, prostitution, and general chaos. Some of them might be law-abiding people who will become an asset to their communities and country, but we've already seen the majority of them are criminals, just like when Cuba emptied their jails and sent them here.
I've been disgusted with all politicians for a long time now, and this "amnesty" is just more crap from the fuckers in Washington. The country that i was born in is gone forever. I've been resisting the change, but now I must embrace it and find the way to exist in a future where "American" is meaningless. I must become a world citizen, where patriotism is a bad word, and I must defer to the minority in all matters, and take the blame for all of the evil in the world.
Fuck that!
It's a brave new world folks. This amnesty is the most bold faced betrayal of every American citizen alive and ever born, the FEd in the form of Congress and the Senate are now openly defying the will of the people in the name of special interest groups and corporate greed.
Call your reps NOW. When you're done, call them AGAIN. Write. E-mail. Do anything. This is it, folks. If this passes, it's OVER. I know most Americans are apathetic until crisis, it took 9-11 to wake people up, and they've gone back to drowsing in front of American Idol.
When they do wake up, if we let them sleep...it will be ugly.
Now you'll excuse me, I have to go work so the Fed can take 50% and pay for people to come here illegally, take our jobs, get free healthcare and eductations, and destroy our communities.
I full expect within 2-3 years it will be 60-70%.
America is over. It was a great experiment, but it's dead, pushing up the daisies, bereft of life, gone to meet it's maker, it is an ex-country.
Agreed.
"I reject the "jobs americans don't want" nonsense, illegals are taking jobs in construction, foodservice, janitorial/maintenance, retail, everywhere - as an example, the illegals found working at major airports. Those are good paying UNION jobs."
I agree with this. A few months ago there was a big raid at a Swift meatpacking plant in CO, roughly 1000 illegals apprehended. What really stuck out to me was in the following days where Swift had mass hiring to replace the illegals. Who did we see in line but white people, US citizens. I guess the illegals weren't just doing work that Americans refuse to do. Corporations love their low wage, mousy employees.
I'm hopeful that this disaster of a bill will get stalled to death in the Senate. The collapse of the housing bubble should on its own clear out a lot of illegals when they can't find work here.
Condos Can Be a Good First Time Choice For Illegal Immigrants
"I'm hopeful that this disaster of a bill will get stalled to death in the Senate. The collapse of the housing bubble should on its own clear out a lot of illegals when they can't find work here."
They won't leave - our nanny state loving Fed will enact special programs to give them unemployment, welfare and healthcare, like they already do.
Nobody is even willing to talk about it, or if they do, they're called racist. I'm fed up. I'm all for a rational immigration policy, which we *already have on the books*. The issue is the Fed will NOT patrol the borders.
I hate to be paranoid or give in to conspiracy theory, but I do not understand the reluctance of our government to close and control our borders.
I have a pet theory that's probably crackpot, but I wonder how much drug money is involved here.
See, if Bush/Feds close the border, and I mean truly close the border, the most effected will be the drug runners. The drug cartels already operate with impunity in Mexico. Could it be that the Feds are terrified of what will happen if they move against the drug cartels like that? Could threats have already been made?
M13 is already here in this country...if the drug cartels wanted to cause serious trouble, they are in a prime position to do so.
I dunno. It could be part of it. None of it makes sense. The President and the Feds are pushing a mockery that makes no sense and is an outrage, and then try to guilt trip us if we complain.
Corporate special interest groups. North american Union. Drug cartels. Pick one, they all make about as much sense.
I will tell you one thing, I will never vote nore support nor donate to the Democratic or Republican parties again. I've had it with all of them.
I might even vote Green - at least they stand for something.
Rob Dawg,
I agree about the massive spending and ponzi scheme. My point is that the scheme is going to topple, and I can guess that folks arent going to want to see their benefits cut or taxes raised, so what else is there to do? No worries, I am not counting on ONE DIRTY PENNY of retirement benefits from the government aside from my pension.
As for those who disagree with my contention about the jobs illegals do, well, its simple economics to figure this out. Unemployment is below where it should be (hence, why we have inflationary pressure). Therefore, if illegals were taking jobs away, our unemployment rate should be higher, much higher. Its not.
Its a joke to become a citizen in this country. I recall a high school friend from Poland who's application for citizenship took 10 years. And this is a guy who scored 1500 SATs, went to a great college, and flies cargo planes now. I mean, seriously, 10 years? System is broken.
As for agricultural industry, I would contend that America's better off leading the world in computing/internet/health/meds, and other sectors than trying to stay competitive in agriculture where you have countries who can seriously compete and create downward pressure on profits. America should do what its best at, and thats inventing new stuff for the rest of the world to make. (seriously)
There does seem to be a problem in assimiliation, but Im pretty sure that other immigrant groups did the same thing initially.
All that said, the bill is a joke. The primary head of household has t o go back to the country of origin during amnesty, which means that the rest of that household will get money from where? Oh, not from their primary income earner. Dumbbutts.
I guess I dont know though. I'm fluent in spanish and english.
As for crime in the streets, I know plenty of illegals. I play soccer with them. They dont turn their areas into crime infested neighborhoods, not the ones in Northern VA at least.
Basically, and maybe this is harsh, but if you dont arm yourself with skills and become a skilled worker, I have no pity if the economy trammels you. not my fault.
In the meantime, the head of the GAO continues to tour the nation telling folks taht we're going to become insolvent unless we address the prescription drug bill (or ditch it)
This topic hits home with me as well. No as much as you in Southern CA, but somewhat. I live in Iowa, spare the jokes people, we feed you with our crops. There's a high amount of factory jobs here, with Tyson and Maytag being the major ones. So with factory jobs, come Mexicans, Somalians, African-Americans, etc. That's fine, I respect them and it provides a lot of work for a lot of people around here.
Well recently, there was a big sting on a major employer here where quite a few folks from Mexico where here illegally and they used fake SSN's to obtain employment. They got picked up and shipped back to Mexico, which raised a lot of fuss. Employers lost a lot of their work force, families lots their main source of income, etc. People were pissed. Except me. I have no problem with giving work to those who want it. There are jobs that Americans think they are above, but that's another topic for another day. I am all for giving people every opportunity to earn a decent living and live the "American Dream." But do it legally. They cried that we violated their rights by shipping them back to Mexico. No we didn't. The moment you stepped into the United States illegally, your rights were gone. Now, we can't do inhumane things to these illegals and they do have the right of safety and health, but outside of those rights, they have zero.
Do what you want to get ahead. But do it legally and the right way.
Does Casey have to pay taxes on the money he's pulling in from his website.
Or will he get reported and busted with our help?
So they lose their primary source of income, so what. They should have thought about that before. If an American citizen who happens to be the primary source of income commits a crime and goes to jail/prison, his/her family is stuck in the same position, yet no one complains. I have no sympathy for a family who loses their father/wife because they were here illegally. Plan accordingly and do things the right way.
I'm going to get a ton of flack for this, but here goes.
Everyone who is hyped up about illegal immigrants needs to see the recent episode of "Penn and Teller's Bullshit" dealing with this.
Here's the fact: the "problem" of illegal immigration is really a "problem" with Mexicans. They are coming to America, working their asses off, and getting paid absolutely substandard wages-- because what are they going to do, complain about a pay increase? The "jobs Americans don't want" argument is bullshit, true, but honestly, immigrant labor does nothing to grow America's GDP. You won't see an illegal immigrant designing Boeing jets anytime soon. From a pure job perspective, US workers should be much more frightened about India, Pakistan, and China, and guess what, they aren't even coming over here to steal our jobs, the jobs are just getting shipped wholesale.
The numbers about how much Mexican immigrants use in terms of social services are overblown. In terms of tax impact, the cost of building a new stadium in Los Angeles for a football team would be larger than providing healthcare for illegal immigrants for ten years.
I love the "it has nothing to do with racism" line when it is so clear, if you just take a step back, that there is a subtle racism going on. Destroying our communities? What kind of drivel is that?
History has shown that within 2 generations, immigrants who come to America become fully integrated. It was that way with the mass influx of Irish. The mass influx of Italians. Hell, everyone here is the product of an immigrant unless you're truly a native American. At some point, all of our ancestors were going through the same crap that immigrants from Mexico are going through. And it's racism.
"Every community these illegals move into becomes barrio overnight, with the attendant crime, drug trade, prostitution, and general chaos."
That is not true, period. I would invite the poster to walk through the toy district or the flower district of downtown LA on a Saturday morning. The "general chaos" is just a different culture going out for their shopping. Crime is an aspect of _every_ culture, or lest we forget about all of the meth heads in heartland America. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are trying to make a little money to send back to their families, so their families can have better lives.
American culture is changing, but that isn't a bad thing. Within 20 years being Latino will be the equivalent of being Irish or Italian. We'll get the requisite federal holiday, we already have cinco de mayo as the requisite going out and drinking holiday, and the culture will get absorbed by the American melting pot.
"I love the "it has nothing to do with racism" line when it is so clear, if you just take a step back, that there is a subtle racism going on. Destroying our communities? What kind of drivel is that?"
You're employing circular reasoning here. You're saying that opposition to illegals is racist because when you take a step back, it's racist.
As far as "destroying communities", well, did you ever live near illegals? When Jose and his 10 closest adult relatives move in next door your life is going to change and it won't be for the better.
The issue isn't race, it's culture. The illegals come from 3rd world cultures and they bring those values with them. That's what most people hate.
"That is not true, period. I would invite the poster to walk through the toy district or the flower district of downtown LA on a Saturday morning."
I don't have to, i live in the Bay Area, I can see what I'm talking about for myself.
What you're talking about is a tourist area where it pays to be nice to the tourists.
I can name any number of hispanic neighborhoods less than a mile from there, where *you* are not welcome, gringo. I've been there, and I would not step foot in there alone day or night.
R-boy...I tend to doubt any numbers the Fed publishes, sorry. I have a distinct feeling that Bush and Co. cook those books, especially as they can change the definition of "employed" at will. Maybe it's not bad in your neck of the woods, but my personal observations don't equal what the Fed says.
My apartment complex is being updated right now, by 60 hispanic workers brough in from Texas, and I would be willing to beleive most of them are illegal.
That's 60 jobs lots of American construction workers would love to have.
Sorry, but if all of the illegals were deported tomorrow, their jobs would be filled quickly, as companies would be forced to offer competitive wages.
The idea that Americans are lazy is repugnant. Most people I know work their asses off. Very few of them are like Casey. I'm tired of the insult that we have to bend over and piss on our culture, soveriegnty and rights, because we're *lazy".
1000 a weak regurgitated the same tired:
The "jobs Americans don't want" argument is bullshit, true, but honestly, immigrant labor does nothing to grow America's GDP.
In much the same way an arsonist or freeway shooter does perhaps. What my daughter's high shool spends for interpreters is enough to give every student a new lptop. Every year. What is spent on foriegn language gang specialists could pay for free health care. I'm not speaking expansively, I'm talking real numbers. Illegl immigrants are a net drain on our economy and ultimately push up the prices of everything. Where can I send the bill for our combating drug resistant TB? Sure they pay "taxes." Here's how it works, 23 hours at minimum wage per week claiming 14 deductions. The other half under the table. The taxes aren't enough to over the paperwork involved. How far do you think that goes towards covering the emergency response medical task force formed to combat recent outbreaks of whooping cough? Don't even try to defend their presence on economic grounds unless you give me an address where I can send you my share of th "largess."
I see 2 reasons why we have so many illegals.
1) lack of border enforcement
2) USCIS(formerly INS) is absolutely a nightmare to go, costly and time consuming.
I dont think Mexico classifies as 3rd world.
As for Jose, Tesla, I have, and no, my life didn't get worse. They actually improved property values in our neighborhood because they (stereotypical I know) kept immaculate care of their lawn and outside of their house.
As for the so what, they lose their primary source of income? Uh, then they get to be supported by the government, not their primary income earner. I'd rather not spend money to deport these guys and then spend money to support their family for the 10 years it takes to make the income earners citizens.
There's a statue in NYC that says
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame,
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
by Emma Lazarus, New York City, 1883
What happened to that?
Im not relying on fed statistics besides being a fed. This is work that is based on economic data for the last 20 years...hardly influenced by bush n co.
Rob Dawg,
"Illegal immigrant most certainly take th very best and more valuable jobs and replace them with the worst least efficient demaning labor jobs. They are the reverse of capital investment in technology and have left our agricultural heritage a century behind other american enterprises."
Very nice. I don't know if I've ever heard of illegals as "the reverse of capital investment." Very well said.
@anon 9:02
I agreed with everything you said, right up to "the idea that Americans are lazy is repugnant". I know waaaay too many people who have either scammed the system and are on disability, or simply come in, record their hours and collect their paycheck for doing very little actual work.
@R-Boy
It's great that the folks around you are keeping things nice, but I spent most of my formative years growing up in Riverside, CA. When I go back now to visit my parents & sisters, I would swear I was in Tijuana. Not a good thing.
SWEET LINKS~!
Strategic Amnesty and Credible Immigration Reform, Nancy H. Chau
Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 19, No. 3. (Jul., 2001), pp. 604-634.
--Why immigration reform is often messed up in 1st world countries
Illegal Immigration, Border Enforcement, and Relative Wages: Evidence from Apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico Border,Gordon H. Hanson; Antonio Spilimbergo,The American Economic Review, Vol. 89, No. 5. (Dec., 1999), pp. 1337-1357.
--How wage equalization will reduce the flow of illegal immigration (basically, why NAFTA was a good idea)
Political Economy, Sectoral Shocks, and Border Enforcement. Gordon H. Hanson; Antonio Spilimbergo
The Canadian Journal of Economics / Revue canadienne d'Economique, Vol. 34, No. 3. (Aug., 2001), pp. 612-638.
--Border enforcement depends on economics. When labour is in higher demand, enforcement is lax.
The Factor Market Consequences of U.S. ImmigrationMichael J. Greenwood; John M. McDowell
Journal of Economic Literature, Vol. 24, No. 4. (Dec., 1986), pp. 1738-1772.
--Wage effects
See folks, thats where I get my info. Not from Bush and Co.
(sigh)
Ok...I hope I don't sound bigoted here:
Amnesty positives:
Making them pay a fine.
Making them wait 8 years to EARN a green card.
Finally assigning more people to finally close the border (which should have been the priority NOT this dumb war - I am a Ron Paul conservative, thanks!).
Amnesty negatives:
Rewarding 12 million people for breaking our laws.
More traffic, more crime, more stress on social services which the guvmint can't afford to improve.
Burden on Western states to deal with this new paradigm.
----------------------------------
I am torn on this. I admire ANYBODY who comes here and works hard to better themselves. My problem is this...I live in SoCal...I see this problem daily. Crap neighborhoods with 12 people living in one home. Will this change with Amnesty? What about the pressure of public schools teaching these kids English? What about the fact I see more signs in Spanish than I do English?
My problem is that when we allow a huge influx of immigrants, we are bringing in more unskilled people than ones that CONTRIBUTE to the economy. Sure, most illegals work hard...I am NOT "hating" on them (as one famous immigrant likes to say). I do hate that there is no incentive to learn English. I also can't get over how nasty the neighborhoods these people live in become. You come here to BETTER yourself and your kids than try and become AMERICAN, PLEASE. I tire of seeing more Mexican flags than American ones. I do not understand why somebody leaves a crappy place just to bring that crappy place with them? No pride in ownership or anything it seems.
Sad.
Believe it or not, I root for the Mexican immigrants to be better. I just don't always see it. I know it's not just a Mexican illegal thing. I see it in black ghettos and I see it in white ghettos. But drive through Santa Ana and tell me that it couldn't be better?
But then again...Armenian and Russian illegal immigration is a HUGE problem down here and I find them arrogant beyond belief. Want to find an ugly stereotype? Look at the Armenian and Russian gangster wannabes down here. Black and Chicano gangs hate them.
As I said, I root for Mexican immigrants because they are willing to work hard.
Rant off.
I'm in R-boy on the subject of amnesty. Those youngish working bodies will also come in handy if we happen to have a draft.
R-Boy said
"As for crime in the streets, I know plenty of illegals. I play soccer with them. They dont turn their areas into crime infested neighborhoods, not the ones in Northern VA at least."
I, too, can vouch for this as well. The undocumented in my corner of NoVa work hard. In turn, they are exploited and they are not paid fair wages. My neighborhood is not crime-infested, either.
If you want to stop illegal immigration, stop the corporations that exploit immigrant labor and the Administration that supports them.
Regarding illegals and crime... give it a little time. The crime is already there, you just don't see it.
You guys who are pissing and moaning about being invaded by foreigners who don't speak English really need to read a little more history.
Do you think the US hasn't been through this before, survived and come out stronger? Go back and take a look at 1880-1910, the last "great wave". Same exact whining, except that time it was about the Italians and the Germans and the Eastern Europeans.
I have to think back to the immigrant families I have known - the Lithuanian whose grandmother never spoke English, her son became an engineer, spoke both Lithuanian and English, grandkids spoke no Lithuanian. Mexican whose grandmother spoke no English, son went into Army, became electrical tech taught his sons English before Spanish, much to his mother's distaste because he "didn't want them to have the Mexican accent" he had, my German grandfather who forbid German in his home and no one in any succeeding generation spoke German. By the third generation, it was a distant memory, by the fourth, family history. We all fit in, I have to think it will be the same in this century as the last.
"Regarding illegals and crime... give it a little time. The crime is already there, you just don't see it."
El Gabo Gringo. Illegal immigrants don't have a corner on crime. As I said, I've been in this area for more than 15 years, and have seen nothing.
The crime is the people that hire illegals and don't pay them; the corporations that shove native born and naturalized citizens because they are too cheap to pay a living wage; the Big Box stores that will hire illegal immigrants and exploit them just so that you and I can buy a $15.00 DVD player. That's who you should be angry about.
"The issue isn't race, it's culture. The illegals come from 3rd world cultures and they bring those values with them. That's what most people hate."
That's interesting. Extended family, respect for one's elders, a sense of duty, and responsibility for work. Yep, those are values we Americans simply HATE.
What's frustrating to many existing, legal immigrants, is that they had to work so hard, wait so long, and so on to get in, so amnesty to those who broke the law and "cut in line" seems so unfair.
What we really need as a country is to change the criteria by which immigrants are granted visas or green cards or naturalization. Currently the government puts a lot of emphasis on existing families (i.e., it's a lot easier to get into this country as an immigrant if your parents or siblings or children live here). Instead, it should be based entirely on intelligence and drive and hard work. Here's a rather tongue-in-cheek idea: erect a wall on the border that's 50 feet high, electrified, and shoots flames out at people who get too close. Anyone who can get past it must be a clever SOB, so let 'em stay.
There is a whole buch of easy quick fixes none of which will ever get implemented. Examples:
"Children born of parents found to be in the US without documentation shall forever be denied US citizenship."
"Registering live births in the United States shall be conducted under the auspices of the INS and subject to full review of parents and siblings with applicants waiving all rights to retroactive appeals."
congrats, youve just proven yourself to be dumber than casey. I would go into detais, having worked cloely with illegals, but stupid people such as yourself cannot be educated.
Late to the party.
I am a big fan of immigrants. My Dad is hoping for a retirement job where he will use a big butterfly net to chase people in foreign lands and force the folks he catches to come to America.
I also sympathize with illegals. They come to America so that they can work, have things, own things, do things. They seem to understand "freedom" and "opportunity" as something other than "I can buy anything I want at the mall."
My bitch is with the way immigrants are treated. Not in the sense of exploitation, but in the sense that government policy actively discourages immigrants from integrating into the larger society.
I think they call it "multi-culturalism" or something.
Then again, the problem with immigration is that within three generations, the grandkids of immigrants are so assimilated that they are as useless as regular Americans. Then we have to import more immigrants.
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