Saturday, June 23, 2007

Progress Progressive Progression

The plight of the cities--their physical decay and human despair that pervades them--is the great internal problem of the American nation, a challenge which must be met. RFK Buffalo NY, 1-20-67

So. How has Buffalo, NY fared in the 40 years since these words were spoken? The picture tells a story. This 5br/2ba 1970sq ft home is sitting on the markey for $35,000.

155 comments:

Benoit™ said...

F I R S T :)

Miguel said...

FIRST!

(crosses fingers)

Benoit™ said...

M
U
R
S
T

Miguel said...

Bastard

Benoit™ said...

This 5br/2ba 1970sq ft home is sitting on the markey for $35,000.

The markey? ;-)

Here in NYC, $35,000 will buy you, what? A 12 square foot closet?

Meanwhile, in Mocha country, the same amount of money can probably buy a palatial estate on your own private island floating in Lake Huron...

socrates said...

$35k is much too much for that POS. Wake me up when it hits $3500.

DCRogers said...

I recall reading somewhere that there is a number below which it no longer makes economic sense to repair your house... the expected return is negative, and you may as well enjoy any remaining rents while it slowly collapses around you.

I don't know what the number is, but $35K must be getting damn close...

formerbuffalonian said...

I grew up in the 'burbs outside of bflo...left after high school and never looked back. Lots of family still there; most friends left after h.s. and live elsewhere. Right now, the city itself has pockets of life-and is trying to attract new business to the waterfront. Housing is cheap there, but no big business. Downtown is full of potential and history, but lacks a "draw". Still a huge hockey and fball town, though.
That comment could have been written about Bflo today. I could tell you stories about corrupt government, misspending,ridiculous taxes, no incentive for big business...all true for Bflo, and true for thousands of other cities I am sure.
35K..hmm, depends on the location. Southtowns, maybe. Inner city, no way.

Anonymous said...

In other words... three of those houses can buy you Casey's blog.

Rob Dawg said...

I am considering hiring a crew to dismantle these structures for the achitectural elements and salvage value of materials. I'll ship baack truckloads of hardwood floors, knobs, fixtures, doors, hardwareleaded glass, moulding, etc to California and lean up in more ways than one. Poor RFK didn't understand cities as machines that have been obsoleted when based on the old model represented by Buffalo.

Lou Minatti said...

Buffalo needs more light rail and they need to do things to draw in the creative class. If Buffalo had more art galleries and coffee shops, it would be ideal.

Lou Minatti said...

I need to add: Buffalo can be a World Class City if it does these things.

formerbuffalonian said...

Some of those oder homes have amazing elements in them....my brother owns a home with glass doorknobs, gorgeous stained glass windows, and wood trim and floors you cannot buy today.
Of course, he had to replace the entire electrical system!
Government there failed so many times, in trying to "recreate" what once was.

Rob Dawg said...

IMO the foolish light rail contributed to Buffalo's current state. A complex explaination worthy of a separate post. Maybe tomorrow.

Buffalo and regional Rochester were the Seattle/Portland of their day. Are those two headed down the same path?

serinitis said...

This is a test. As I start typing, this is the current subject. If a new subject starts by the time I can post it, Robhas found a solution for dealing with trolls. And he thinks I am one.

Anonymous said...

Marty's deep pockets will be tested. Every deep pocketed businessman eventually figures out when he's throwing good money after bad, and like every other businessman Casey has crossed paths with, Marty will soon discover that he's more trouble than he's worth.

My sources also indicate that the NLL are pursuing action of their own. Even the wall of legal paper might be enough to cause Marty to abandon ship. Good things are coming!

Sarah L. said...

Off-topic:

Amazing talkcast! IMHO the most interesting and informative to date. Special thanks to Annie, it was so helpful.
*Highly recommend.*

Robbie Fields said...

1967, great starting point for a discussion, 2 years after the Watts riots lifted the nation's blinkers just enough for entire
U.S. urban populations to flee what had been quite pleasant inner suburbs.

Now everytime I come across these kind of sub $100,000 listings across the USA, I always look up the stats for the local schools. It makes depressing reading.

Rob, even though lesser houses are selling for ten times as much in California's inner cities, those same inner cities are still blighted and are a world even more hidden from the suburban majority.


http://postposhboy.blogspot.com/

Rob Dawg said...

Robbie,
Good points. We've been "experimenting" with urban patterns with mixed results. I am not quite sure why people bust their ass to live in crime and all that in Los angeles working 2 jobs that go beegging in the rust belt where they could afford a house and give their kids a good education in a better environment. I'm equally mystified that places like LA go to such great lengths to enable a permanent underclass when everyone would be better off with a little tough love.

Kerriella said...

Sarah L.,
What is the link to the talkcast?

Thanks

Sarah L. said...

@Kerriella

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=38863

Note: It takes several minutes for all the principals to assemble but well worth the wait.

Buffed said...

'Poor RFK didn't understand cities as machines that have been obsoleted when based on the old model represented by Buffalo.'

What old model? Excellent transportation connections through water and rail? Industries? A well educated workforce capable of producing high quality goods?

Surprisingly, most of the world has yet to follow America into a glorious future of financial engineering, patenting the obvious, or thinking that debt equals wealth. Or believing that Hollywood dreams are real - personally, I'm still waiting for the mini-series where one of the world's largest ports, a transhipment point for much of the agricultural output of an entire continent, isn't allowed to rot, because a nation has more important things to do, like paying attention to its latest American Idol.

Though of course, what does America have to learn from the Japanese, the Koreans, the Germans, the Chinese, the French - after all, in none of those societies have cities been allowed to rot for no better reason than no one cared.

Guess they just have a little bit more experience in civilization than the U.S.

Of course, since several of those economies still have manufacturers producing the sort of goods that Buffalo used to, I don't think they are really all that interested in sharing their perspectives on how to plan for the long term.

Intriguingly, I was just reading a Spiegel article about high speed rail, and how embarassing it is that the German ICE 3 can only run at 200 kph (125 mph) on much of the German rail network, while now that two German/French routes have opened, the ICE 3 can run at 320 kph (200 mph) in France. One reason that was interesting is that coming home on the Karlsruhe streetcar, which uses both the city rail network and the standard rail system (who needs something as stupid as 'light' rail?), the route was being worked on, as it is part of the high speed route which will be connecting France, Switzerland, Germany, the Benelux countries, and Italy.

For some reason, the world's largest exporter doesn't share your faith in exurbia as a new form of civilization - and the ICE 3 seems to be selling quite well, world wide.

Didn't Buffalo, in that long ago, and in your eyes obsolete past, have something to do with trains? Hmmm. Oh well, after the entire bubble built on hallucinated wealth from debt goes pop, maybe you can trade some old mementoes of that past on Ebay. And complain about how unfair it is that Japan, Germany, and France export real things, instead of that intellectual property which is the best route to sweet passive income - why actually make things and get all sweaty, when someone else will. Until they get the idea that exchanging real things for Hollywood dreams doesn't actually put food on anyone's tables, except the middleman's.

vegas crash watcher said...

Buffed is obviously unhinged. And a lover of big, corrupt government. And a lover choo-choo trains. Grow up, move out of useless cities and stop paying taxes to corrupt politicians.

Anonymous said...

*raises hand* Part of the western NYS brain drain here. We've been trying to go back for years, but as much as everyone likes to claim high tech is up and coming there? It's a dead market. Recruiters up there have nothing to say to me when I call them, meanwhile recruiters from pretty much everywhere else on the East Coast ring my phone off the hook.

I think a big part of the problem is that the state and federal governments really don't give a crap when you head north of Rockland County, or else they view it as a lost cause. I mean hell, the governor is on record as having referred to the area as another Appalachia, and what's he doing about it? He's having his wife run focus groups to figure out why 18-40 year olds don't stay. Real proactive there, buddy. Maybe she'll finish up right around when some other governor who doesn't really care takes over.

I'm fairly liberal but I'm going to have a really hard time voting for Hillary next year for similar reasons. When she ran for Senator, she spent a couple of days there yammering about how she was going to attract all sorts of industry to the area and stop the hemorrhage. Y'all see the results of that campaign promise. I wish someone had asked her to point out her location on a map, I'm sure she wouldn't have been able to do it.

HP Refugee said...

Why would anyone go to/live in Buffalo at any price?
The only reason to go to Buffalo is for a cheap flight on your way to Toronto.
Fly into Buffalo and drive to Toronto, to save a buck or two.
ugh

Yorkshire Pudding said...

OT (oh well).

Short OC Register article on Q&A with FBI on mortgage shenanigans

Advice given at the end of the article: "Please report mortgage fraud to law enforcement agencies in your area, including the FBI.”

The first comment posted after the article: "Where are the prosecutions? If bubble bloggers can uncover seemingly fraudulent activities, what is the FBI doing?"

Quite.

Lou Minatti said...

In addition to light rail and coffee shops to attract the creative class, Buffalo needs a new stadium, preferrably one with a retractable roof. These are requirements for all World Class Cities. Oh, and lofts.

Anonymous said...

MLS listing

Goole Maps

Zillow

TK said...

I also use Buffalo to visit my folks in Toronto. It's a dump. Got stuck there because of some bad weather and had to walk about 3 miles to a grocery store. Talk about depressed. Same with Niagara Falls NY - dirt poor on the US side, shiny, fat and happy on the Canadian side.

Lou Minatti said...

"Why would anyone go to/live in Buffalo at any price?"

There are lots of Buffalo's, slowly rotting away. You can blame poor zoning practices, high taxation, unions, dying industry.

Irvine could end up like Buffalo now that its primary industry has been shut down. I certainly hope so. I'd rather see America have factories that produce tangible things, rather than air-conditioned cube farms that produce nothing but paperwork for stupid loans. America (and most of the rest of the world, frankly) was handed a tremendous gift in the form of liquidity, and we wasted it.

Anonymous said...

I am not quite sure why people bust their ass to live in crime and all that in Los angeles working 2 jobs that go beegging in the rust belt where they could afford a house and give their kids a good education in a better environment.

Lots of reasons. Here's a few possibilities:

1) Fear of the unknown
2) They don't want to be far away from the friends and family in their current area
3) The don't like the climate there
4) They don't like the lower level of amenities there - restaurants, medical facilities, colleges, sports teams, museums, etc
5) Their religion of choice is not commonly practiced there
6) There are limited opportunities in their career of choice there
7) They don't like the political POV there
8) They want their children to be exposed to more cultural diversity as they grow up
9) Picking up and moving is too expensive
10) They actually like living in their current location

Sharky said...

What was it I once read about Buffalo?

One day, (early or mid 70's, I think it was), something like 50% of it's job market went "poof".

One of the things that killed Buffalo was the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway. There was no longer a need for Great Lakes originated bulk cargoes to be transhipped via rail to the sea.
The ships can now sail right up to the elevators and ore terminals.

But one thing our government DOES have in common with the Euros and Asian "models" mentioned by the poster above is that it doesn't know when it's playing a busted flush.

It would rather kill the entire state and regional economy by parasitic taxation in trying to "push a rope".

Hey...if there was no more "Buffalo", then what would the Mayor and City Council do for a living?

Sometimes, and Buffalo is a case, as is New Orleans,Baltimore, and Rotterdam and Wilhelmshaven, the riverine/maritime and rail infrastructure that was the kernel around which they formed has been outdated by advances in transportation.

Ships are much bigger and faster than they were 30 years ago.
A sea voyage from Rotterdam to Wilhelmshavn takes 12 hours @ 20 knots, and a modern containership can carry what used to be carried by 10 breakbulk freighters in one day @ 10 knots.

Trains now carry double-stacked containers, (same length of train, twice the cargo), offshore container barges have reached stoopid sizes.

But try talking a city or state governing body into recognizing the obvious and "breaking their own rice bowl", as they see it.

Nawww, they'd rather tax the world to death so that they cling to the past.

Sharky said...

@lou minatti:

" Buffalo needs a new stadium, preferrably one with a retractable roof. These are requirements for all World Class Cities. Oh, and lofts."

Ha! I once saw an interview with a guy who had been on the Jacksonville FL city council.

He pointed out that for the cost of the football stadium, which generated only a few hundred seasonal minimum wage unskilled reatil jobs, they could have modernized their port facilities and created hundreds of high-wage skilled positions.

See which initiative one won?

"Go Jaguars!"

wine country dude said...

Was looking through Caseypedia this morning and wanted to compliment the authors. Really. It's an hysterically funny site. Fortunately, the man/boy/murse it lampoons keeps it, and all of us, supplied with a continuous flow of new material. Very well done, and worth the work, at least for the rest of us who get to view the fruits.

Meanwhile: I, for one, am deeply impressed that KC is sitting on a gold mine of offers. $100K! I wonder: was that taken from an e-mail that also offered him discount Cialis?

Hello Dooosh Baggs said...

Where is the Casey content today???

Jack said...

@Sharky:

Rotterdam is actually not that bad.
but that has nothing to do directly with the world famous port.
indirectly however, it works out. and it doesn't carry all those dirty tourists that are attracted to the amsterdam coffeeshops.

formerbuffalonian said...

http://www.buffalorising.com/

Linky above is the "Buffalo Rising", blog..front page has article titled "Buffalo-spanning 100 years" which is actually very relevant to this discussion.
There is a group trying to revive the so-called "urban core". Core of what, I couldn't tell you.

Anonymous said...

THE CASEY (to the tune of “the Boxer” by Paul Simon)

I am just a poor boy though my story’s often told
I have thrown away my marriage
For a higher google rating
So much for promises

All lies in jest
‘till I hear just what I want to hear
And disregard the rest
I lie, I lie, I lie, I lie (etc.)

When I left my home and family I had nothing but my murse
And an invite from some strangers
Half a world away, yeah I was runnin’ scared
Laying low, seeking out some more sweet deals
From the other smarmy players
The kind of deals that only they would know
I lie, I lie, I lie, I lie (etc.)

Not one to work for wages, I go seeking “sponsorship”
And I get some offers
From folks that want to jump onboard and ride my wave
I do declare, as unlikely as it seems
Most turn out to be even shadier than me
I lie, I lie, I lie, I lie (etc.)

Now my hosts are pointing to the door, suggesting that I go
Back to where I came from
Though my answer must no, no one there to feed me
Just want to bleed me
Duh Duh, Duh (etc.)


Now I’m stranded in the outback, a grifter far from home
Still carrying the reminder
Of every cash back deal, and the cash long-gone
As the haterz shout in anger that I should be ashamed
Just for leaving, still believing
Though Galina still remains.
I lie, I lie, I lie, I lie (etc.)

Anonymous said...

GO AWAY CASEY PEOPLE!

THERE ARE SPECIALLY DEVELOPED BLOGS FOR THAT!

Please stop interrupting the discussion here. If a Casey reference is relevant, so be it. But the off-topic Casey drivel is getting old. Frankly I am saddened at the manner in which you have turned our beloved EN into a circus.

Now back on topic please. Thank you.

Kerriella said...

Just finished the talkcast and I agree with Sarah L., it was amazing! Great job!

Metroplexual said...

Rob,

What is amazing about Buffalo is how much of the old stuff is intact. If you watch the Natural most of it was filmed there. It is almost like going in the way-back machine.

king friday the 13th said...

>> Buffalo needs a new stadium, preferrably one with a retractable roof. These are requirements for all World Class Cities. Oh, and lofts.

Buffalo doesn't need that crap or coffee houses and art museums.

It needs JOBS. Lots of high paying JOBS. I don't move to an area because of the coffee shops or sports stadiums. I move to an area where I can get a JOB. And where lots of other people have JOBS.

Look at RTP in North Carolina. Full of red necks and not much else. But, once the high paying tech JOBS moved there, so did the "fun-fastructure" -- sports teams, cafes, and other crap most of the employed don't have time for.

I'm part of the great Upstate New York brain-drain. Unless you are in medicine or law, there are few professional jobs in that area. Same thing is happening in Michigan (not much else there except the auto industry).

Everyone is so quick to blame the unions for killing Michican and New York. What about the 2 billion Indians and Chinese who work for $1 a day. That's the Republican wet dream -- to have the middle class in this country reduced to poverty.
Keep voting for them, and the rest of America will soon ressemble Buffalo.

Anonymous said...

At 11:19 AM, Anonymous said...

" GO AWAY CASEY PEOPLE! I am saddened at the manner in which you have turned our beloved EN into a circus."

Oh, I am sorry Rob Dawg, posting anonymously. I will pick up my stuff and just... hey, wait a minute. you mean you are NOT Rob Dawg posting anonymously? You know, the owner of the blog. Oh, then here is an idea:

How about a huge steaming helping of STFU?

Followed, of course, by a link to your own hosted: "Buffalo residential red brick reuse plan infrastructure discussion only Blog"... oh, don't have that handy right now? Then it looks like it's just the bevvy for you and on your way. Now, scoot....

king friday the 13th said...

wow, for $105K you could buy:

1) 3 houses in Buffalo, NY (3 @ $35000).

or

2) one sweet blog generating $10K in revenue (allegedly) and still have $5K left over.

I honestly thing number 2 is the better option...

ha38349 said...

At 11:55 AM, king friday the 13th said...
Look at RTP in North Carolina. Full of red necks and not much else. But, once the high paying tech JOBS moved there, so did the "fun-fastructure" -- sports teams, cafes, and other crap most of the employed don't have time for.


NO! NO! NO! Stay away from RTP. It is a hot (and moist) miserable place with crime, drugs and gangs. Stay away!

ha38349 said...

Oh and I forgot to mention snakes, lots of snakes in RTP. Copperheads are big, mean and poisonous.

Akatsukami said...

"That's the Republican wet dream -- to have the middle class in this country reduced to poverty."

As opposed to your wet dream, which is to live high on the hog whilst all those furriners live in poverty?

The DLS of the "globalization" debate is that the poorest American lives better than 90% of his contemporaries and 99% of people in history. You can put forward good reasons why physical goods consumed here should be made here (and the wages for producing them should be paid here), but that America is being driven into unprecedented destitution is not one of them.

Ubermonkey said...

Buffalo is a great example of how an urban area can slowly fade away once its reason to exist fades away if it hasn't diversified into other areas.

Buffalo was the end point for the Erie Canal, which opened in 1825. At its relative peak in 1900, it was the eighth largest city (and metro area) in the US, making it comparable to Houston today.

However with the expansion of railroads, Buffalo's specialness began to fade and other cities grew more quickly. The real blow to Buffalo was the construction of the Saint Lawrence Seaway, which took pretty much all of the commercial traffic off the Erie canal. It was at this point the Buffalo went into rapid absolute decline. It is now on a par with such throbing metropolises as Stockton, CA, Plano , TX, and St. Paul MN and is set to fall to the ranks of Modesto California and Loredo Texas by 2010.

Anonymous said...

@12:32 PM, Ubermonkey

It was at this point the Buffalo went into rapid absolute decline. It is now on a par with such throbing metropolises as Stockton, CA, Plano , TX, and St. Paul MN...

The only thing that's throbbing right now is my penis; for the large population of hookers on Wilson Way....I've lived here all my life and there still ain't sh@t to do!

Buffalo? You've got to be kidding! said...

It's been a year or two since I've traveled to Buffalo. But, if it's like I remember it's pretty darn cold until summer. Who wants to live anywhere where you have to plug your car into a socket to prevent the battery from freezing? You guys/gals can keep any place north of Virginia.

socrates said...

Norton lines up for the kick, it's up, it's, it's, NO GOOD! THE GIANTS WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!

vegas crash watcher said...

king friday the 13th claimed: "I'm part of the great Upstate New York brain-drain."

His opinions against globalization and free trade are so idiotic I don't think he had much of a brain to drain.

The Dude said...

It's NORWOOD...you dufus. Now go back to your video games

Harry B. Derchi said...

But in Buffalo as a hedge against global warming!

E. C. said...

CHJTS,

We're thinking of you and hope you recover soon.

Sharky said...

vegas crash watcher:

"His opinions against globalization and free trade are so idiotic I don't think he had much of a brain to drain."

Not knowing the fella, or how full his brains may or may not be, I'll suspend judgement.

But I ceratinly recall that NAFTA was supposed to be the panacea to lead us all into the Elysian Fields of economic bliss.

Mexicans were supposed to be making enough pesos at home in Mexico that they would no longer crash our borders looking for work.

Remember that?

And, there were a few kinda hush-hush and on the qt "set-asides" to the NAFTA.

Do you think you're enjoying the benefits of globalized free trade when you buy wheat, sugar or peanut products?

Care to ask a Canadian about our softwood lumber import policies?

We're payin' WAAAAY above world market prices for those commodities, chum.

Those are facts...look 'em up.

So what, exactly, was NAFTA all about?

Answer: Manufacturing Jobs.

If you'd like to sing the Gospel of Free Trade, then by all means do so...but go and shout it from the rooftops AT those who refuse to break their rice bowls, (RICE, is I think, another set-aside), for the Dogma of Globalization, see?

Anonymous said...

So, how much could you rent a $35K Buffalo house for?

Set aside the fact that it's Buffalo. But, if you could rent it, cover all expenses and have cash flow left over, then *gasp* maybe it's could be a real honest to goodness real estate investment?

- Too lazy to sign in, so I'm at anonymous...

Just call me "110 degrees in Phoenix"

FINALLY... said...

ROB DAWG, GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU ARE FINALLY MODERATING (I HOPE)!!!

Intelligent thought becomes lost amidst the drivel of the Casey Serin Haterz and supporterz and Trolls and Lurkers and... .

Alas, you have regained control of the helm.

I don't know how you allowed these idiots to hold your blog hostage for this long :-S

Now onward with the discourse.

socrates little brother said...

Norton, Norwood, what's the dif? Giants win!!

Tesla said...

I'm another former Upstate NY'er. I was born and raised in Syracuse, went to college in Rochester, and lived in various other Upstate towns. There are many towns in Upstate NY where you can buy a nice house in a good school district for < $100,000. When I go back to visit family I drool at the real estate section of the newspaper. Then I look at the employment section and remember why I left. It's sad what has happened to the region but what can one say, it has outlived its economic utility. Not helping matters is that the cost of doing business is high. New York consistently dukes it out with Maine for dead last on lists of best states to do business in.

vegas crash watcher said...

Sharky et al.,
I'm agaiinst imbalances caused by any and all governments; that's why I'm hoping for the collapse of the nation-state due to a debt/real estate/stock market/gold/bond/art bubble and deflationary depression of unprecedented magnitude. The nation-state will die when deprived of taxes. So far, I've been very disappointed. Open borders and free trade, no welfare at all. Execute politicians for fun.

soem dood said...

Rob:

To give a nod to those who may have come here prior to the Globally Spreading Murse Infection, since we apparently aren't getting forums any time soon, perhaps you could paste up 2 new threads at a time when there is Casey news? One that is exurb themed, and one specific to Casey. I for one (and I'm sure others) would be only too happy to limit my Casey comments to the 'right' place, but unfortunately (or fortunately?) the blog currently seems to have become an intermittent stream of consciousness kind of thing, with pseudo-returns to it's prior baseline when there are no recent wheatgrass addict sightings...

I don't mind that too much, but apparently some do.

I don't have much to add nor follow WRT light rail, Buffalo historical transportation modalities, etc, but I do like to follow the Casey train, waiting for it's inevitable smoking twisted metal end.

Anyway, indicate a preference, and I would bet most Haterz™ will accomodate.

CHJTS said...

Thanks to all for your warm comments regarding my getting my ass kicked by a senior citizen.

There is a makeup haterzcast scheduled tonight (in 45 minutes).

It will more than likely not be as long as a usual haterzcast..but all are welcome.

I am feeling pretty good with the muscle relaxers so it shouldnt affect my performance that everyone has come to know and love.

My voice may get wavy at times...but throughout the day it has been getting stronger and others that have been over to see me have said that they dont even know a difference. I notice a difference though because I "man-up" and put my best foot forward because I hate to show weakness...I am just wierd like that.

So I will give it my all, whatever that may be.

As usual please go to stephj's blog for the official play by play and comments.....rob is still on vacation and wont be around to start a new thread.

Ogg the Caveman said...

@ DCRogers:

I recall reading somewhere that there is a number below which it no longer makes economic sense to repair your house... the expected return is negative, and you may as well enjoy any remaining rents while it slowly collapses around you.

Indeed, and that's basically the phenomenon that drives the development of urban prairie in the rust belt. We had a discussion about that on EN some time back.

This article details the decay of one Detroit block from busy middle-class neighborhood to mostly empty land over 50 years. It's long, but worth a look.

CHJTS said...

steph j's blog is here

http://jeepgirlj.blogspot.com/

talkcast is here

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=34513&cmd=tc

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

"Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits"

by Catherine Austin Fitts


I made the decision to write “Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits” in the middle of a vegetable garden in Montana during the summer of 2005 . I had come to Montana to develop a venture capital model to support a healthier, fresher local food supply. If we want clean water, fresh food, sustainable infrastructure, and healthy communities, we are going to have to finance and govern these resources ourselves. We cannot invest in the stocks and bonds of large corporations, banks and governments that are harming our food, water, environment and all living things and then expect these resources to be available when we need them.

Surviving and thriving as a free people depends on creating and transacting with currencies and investments other than those printed and manipulated by Wall Street and Washington to the eventual end of our rights and assets.

What I found in Montana, however, was what I have found in communities all across America. We are so financially entangled in the federal government and large corporations and banks that we cannot see our complicity in everything we say we abhor. Our social networks are so interwoven with the institutional leadership — government officials, bankers, lawyers, professors, foundation heads, corporate executives, investors, fellow alumni — that we dare not hold our own families, friends, colleagues and neighbors accountable for our very real financial and operational complicity. While we hate "the system," we keep honoring and supporting the people and institutions that are implementing the system when we interact and transact with them in our day-to-day lives. Enjoying the financial benefits and other perks that come from that intimate support ensures our continued complicity and contribution to fueling that which we say we hate.

Standing among the beautiful vegetables and flowers that Montana summer day, I was facing the futility of trying to craft investment solutions without some basic consensus about the economic tapeworm that is killing us and all living things — while we blindly feed the worm. In a world of economic warfare, we have to see the strategy behind each play in the game. We have to see the economic tapeworm and how it works parasitically in our lives. A tapeworm injects chemicals into a host that causes the host to crave what is good for the tapeworm. In America, we despair over our deterioration, but we crave the next injection of chemicals from the tapeworm.

With this in mind, I decided to write “Dillon Read & Co Inc. and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits” as a case study designed to help illuminate the deeper system. It details the story of two teams with two competing visions for America. The first was a vision shared by my old firm on Wall Street — Dillon Read — and the Clinton Administration with the full support of a bipartisan Congress. In this vision, America's aristocracy makes money by ensnaring our youth in a pincer movement of drugs and prisons and wins middle class support for these policies through a steady and growing stream of government funding and contracts for War on Drugs activities at federal, state and local levels. This consensus is made all the more powerful by the gush of growing debt and derivatives used to bubble the housing and mortgage markets, manipulate the stock and precious metals markets and finance trillions missing from the US government in the largest pump and dump in history — the pump and dump of the entire American economy. This is more than a process designed to wipe out the middle class. This is genocide — a much more subtle and lethal version than ever before perpetrated by the scoundrels of our history texts.

This case study provides a detailed example of the financial kickback machinery that makes the process go. It works something like this. A group of executives and investors start a company. Rather than build a business the old fashioned way, company profits are pumped up with government legislation, contracts, regulation, financing, subsidies and/or enforcement. This dramatically increases the value of the company's financial equity. The company and its initial investors then sell their stock at a profit. Such profits replenish contributions made to the kind of politicians who can arrange such government benefits. Such profits also fund philanthropy to foundations and universities that have large endowments that invest along side the investors. These tax-exempt organizations provide graduates to staff positions in the game, intellectual justification to attract popular support and photo opportunities which bestow legitimacy and social stature. Personnel cycle through the management and boards of business, government and academia, as real productivity falls and government deficits grow.

The second vision was shared by my investment bank in Washington — The Hamilton Securities Group — and a small group of excellent government civil servants and appointees who believed in the power of education, hard work and a new partnership between people, land and technology. This vision would allow us to pay down public and private debt and create new business, infrastructure and equity. We believed that new times and new technologies called for a revival that would permit decentralized efforts to go to work on the hard challenges upon us — population, environment, resource management and the rapidly growing cultural gap between the most technologically proficient and the majority of people. We believed that private and public capital should flow to that which was most economically productive rather than be mixed in a complex cocktail of insider deals designed to hollow out the American economy and culture.

My hope is that “Dillon, Read & the Aristocracy of Stock Profits” will help you to see the game sufficiently to recognize the dividing line between two visions. One centralizes power and knowledge in a manner that tears down communities and infrastructure as it dominates wealth and shrinks freedom. The other diversifies power and knowledge to create new wealth through rebuilding infrastructure and communities and nourishing our natural resources in a way that reaffirms our ancient and deepest dream of freedom.

My hope is that as your powers grow to see the financial game and the true dividing lines, you will be better able to build networks of authentic people inventing authentic solutions to the real challenges we face. My hope is that you will no longer invite into your lives and work the people and organizations that sabotage real change. If enough of us come clean and hold true to the intention to transform the game, we invite in the magic that comes in dangerous times.

Yes, there is a better way and, yes, we can create it.

more; http://www.dunwalke.com/

king friday the 13th said...

>> When I go back to visit family I drool at the real estate section of the newspaper. Then I look at the employment section and remember why I left.

LOL. I do that too.

Software engineers in India now earn $20 - 30K (US $) per year, and China is $15 - 25K (US $), and these numbers are increasing 20 - 30% per year. Typically, companies figure off-shoring introduces 30 - 50% additional overhead to on-shore off-sourcing.

Thus, extrapolating, in 2 - 4 years, US companies will look to outsource to cheaper locations here in the US, where $50 - 60K salary makes for good living. And those wages will be competitive.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Sorry about the bible long post, but it is good stuff.

Anonymous said...

http://www.lifeonline.com/gdshop/radio/default.asp

This is Casey's next online gig....

The Blogger You Love To Hate
This would-be mogul's 10 real estate mistakes left him teetering on the brink of financial disaster, but the blog he started to take his woes public has made him a lightening rod for disdain. Find out how he has generated a rabid blog following fast and how he’s using it to get back on his feet, much to the dismay of his detractors.
Guest: Casey Serin, World's Most Hated Blogger

It starts at 1PM PT.4PM EST this Wednesday with Bob Parsons founder of GoDaddy.

Call in number is 1-888-880-4004

(RichDad, from HaterzCast)

DCRogers said...

@ogg the caveman 4:50 PM

Thanks for the link... as for Detroit, it's a personal heartbreak, and the textbook example of everything done wrong with urban planning and political management, combined with every possible bad break, including all possible NAFTA downside. (I'm sure Rob Dawg could use the infamous "PeopleMover" as an example of failed light rail... designed to revitalize downtown, went terribly overbudget, and by the time it was finished, some of the stops had no there, there, left.)

Check out Zillow on just about any neighborhood. Those homes that last sold for $5000 ain't no typo. (Search for "Pingree Street" in "Detroit MI" for entire blocks valued at $6K).

I'm the broken link... my family moved there when it was being built, and my great-grandfather, a carpenter, built many of those homes. I left at 18, for the great migration to California in the 70s.

These cities will never attract Richard Florida's "creative classes" back again, at least not directly. The best chances for the Detroits, and Uticas, and Daytons, are intact immigrant communities. In Detroit, it is Chaldean Lebanese, who adapted quite well to entreprenurialism in a gun- and crime-rich environment. (I remember seeing cars pulling up to small storefronts, and men jumping out with shotguns, to escort the owner out with the day's takings at the close of business.)

Rob is right that these homes were well-built with a lot of nice stuff in them. But it would be a shame to vulturize them, just in case a few of the "creative class" come back to try to buff these quality bones first laid down by my great-grandfather.

Anonymous said...

I sometimes wonder if Casey's story means different things to different people.

For me and everyone I know it can be distilled in one simple sentence:

Casey's abuse of the rule of law is an affront to everyone who reveres and lives by it.

Is it something else for you?

Anonymous said...

All apologies, I meant to ask this in a different thread. Again: wrong thread!

Disgusted with Bob Parsons said...

Emailed today to Bob Parsons, president of Godaddy.com:

You are such a schmuck, Bob. To put it nicely. Do you know that Casey Serin has been hiding out in Australia for several weeks now leaving his wife behind holding the bag? He is not making a comeback off the blog, and I can assure you that his "detractors" are not dismayed. His "detractors" include members of the Department of Justice and the Sacramento D.A., among others who just biding their time while Casey digs his scummy hole deeper and deeper.

You are going to advertise the "positive" aspects of someone who had committed repeated felonies and has left his family with the consequences. Just because he is stupid enough to blog about it - how many dirty pennies do you make off this? Do you realize that Casey promised to pay back "every dirty penny"? Did you know that his mother is now responsible for a ridiculous line of credit that he bought using a shell corporation? And his wife is cleaning toilets just to be able to buy food while her jackass husband gallavants around ignoring his bills and turning off his phone so his wife has to deal with the debt collectors? Have you asked Casey about CashCall?? Do you realize that he promised to shut down the blog if he could not provide 1,000 a week to pay bills, yet he hasn't paid a dime and ran away instead - just so he could keep his silly little blog? I can assure you Bob, that it will be to YOUR dismay to join Casey in his manic highs and lows. So what if he did make 100k off the blog?? He still owes the IRS and his creditors hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And what is up with PageDaddy.com? Why do you have it under Domains by Proxy - too embarrassed to admit it's yours? - yet the name was registered thru Godaddy - hmmm - how stupid do you think people are? Why do you allow your company to be associated with crooks? Do you have no pride?

Don't give up integrity for a little publicity - it just isn't worth it. I personally will transfer all 650 domain names of mine to Moniker and will suggest publicly that all Casey's "detractors" do the same. And there are many many of us.

One question Bob - do YOU support Casey Serin?

Walter Sobchak said...

Another foreclosure in Modesto:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/23/state/n122528D75.DTL

I'm sure Snowflake would have loved to have picked this one up, too, if this guy hadn't gotten to it first...

0 Comment Sway-bee said...

The amazing evolution of Nigel Swaby (Sway-bee)-


10/31/06:"As I kept reading his story, I realized he’s very intelligent and pretty shrewd about reaching his goal of avoiding foreclosure" (Press Release)


11/5/06: "You can call him stupid, you can call him crazy, you can call him a dreamer, but you can’t call Casey Serin a quitter." ( SLC "Exclusive" Article)


11/7/06: "I don't think Casey meant to defraud anyone and at least he's got a conscience." (SLC)


1/27/07: "Nice victory Casey. I sense a comeback!" (IAFF)


2/19/07: "Our justice system is overburdened and there are much more dangerous criminals out there than Casey Serin." (SLC)


3/30/07: "EN is the digital equivalent of Lord of the Flies." (DHC Anti-Hate Manifesto)


4/24/07: "Casey has taught me how to "fail-forward!" " (DHC)


5/31/07: "Casey is finally starting to undo something he never should have undertaken in the first place. He's placing his family first. A good decision." (DHC)


6/22/07: "I simply ask supporters and advertisers alike to consider the people that Casey Serin has hurt; his wife, his family, and even the businesses involved with him. With that in mind, how can you continue to support Casey Serin?"

Anonymous said...

who is Casey?

Anonymous said...

who is Casey?
==========
who are you? welcome to en.
meet casey.
http://www.iamfacingforeclosure.com/

coitdeck said...

Buffalo has one of the best grocery store chains: Wegmans. It also has a fabulous Art Gallery: The Albright Knox. It also has a minor league baseball team the Bisons, where families can gather, have a great time, not fight crowds, park close to the stadium that is right downtown. If you live in the burbs and commute, your rush hour is short and you don't get stuck in the traffic. You can also hop over the bridge to Canada in 15 minutes, be on a beurtiful lakeshore, go to the canadian Niagara Falls or Niagara on the lake. All these things are wonderful. Amherst, one of the suburbs that I grew up in, has the lowest crime rate in the nation. You can live in a beautiful mansion that will cost under $500,000

Pre-Casey ENer said...

The thing I don't understand is...there are blogs created specifically to discuss Casey. Why don't you people go there. EN had its own following before Casey. Small but engaging. Now, kindly move the Circus de Casey to the next town. Your permit here is expired.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I am pre Casey too, and what is the dif, we can do both.

Jeff Lebowski said...

Hey Sobchak, you're not allowed to use the computer tonight... you're Shomer Shabbos, aren't you? :-)

lawnmower man said...

And what is up with PageDaddy.com? Why do you have it under Domains by Proxy - too embarrassed to admit it's yours? - yet the name was registered thru Godaddy - hmmm - how stupid do you think people are?

You had me until here.

Just for the record: GoDaddy != PageDaddy.com.

GoDaddy is the registrar and, according to the Marty Files, the host of PageDaddy.com. That's simply a service relationship. Marty Stewart is the owner of PageDaddy.com.

Lady...What??? said...

@7:15PM FMW said:

"I am pre Casey too, and what is the dif, we can do both."

Are you freaking kidding me lady??? Did you not see the mess that was created here because of the elements that Casey issues attracts here. Look, there is so much more to discuss in housing besides Casey.

I think it was suggested once that you start your own "ihatecasey" blog because you are so intrigued by him. Get a grip woman. Also is all this worth idiotic morons making nasty comments about your children? I THINK NOT!

Please do not respond to my comment. I certainly don't want to be involved in all the caos or feed your need for drama.

lawnmower man said...

The thing I don't understand is...there are blogs created specifically to discuss Casey. Why don't you people go there.

Because Rob has put one focus of this blog squarely and firmly on Casey? And because Rob is a major, and enthusiastic, player in the Casey story?

If you don't like the direction Rob has taken EN in, take it up with him.

Your permit here is expired.

Who died and made you mayor, pseudotroll?

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

@ Lady What,
OHHHHKKAAAYYY Troll. The kayos was you, imo. New tact? Trying to kill EN?
Rob was on vacation, duh.

Disgusted with Bob Parsons said...

Thanks Lawnmower Man - I respect your knowledge on the subject (good thing I was waiting for a few thoughts on the subject before I hit send on the email)

New and revised:

You are such a schmuck, Bob. To put it nicely. Do you know that Casey has been hiding out in Australia for several weeks now leaving his wife behind holding the bag? He is not making a comeback off the blog, and I can assure you that his "detractors" are not dismayed. His "detractors" include members of the Department of Justice and the Sacramento D.A., among others who just biding their time while Casey digs his scummy hole deeper and deeper.

You are going to advertise the "positive" aspects of someone who had committed repeated felonies and has left his family with the consequences. Just because he is stupid enough to blog about it - how many dirty pennies do you make off this? Do you realize that Casey promised to pay back "every dirty penny"? Did you know that his mother is now responsible for a ridiculous line of credit that he bought using a shell corporation? And his wife is cleaning toilets just to be able to buy food while her jackass husband gallavants around ignoring his bills and turning off his phone so his wife has to deal with the debt collectors? Have you asked Casey about CashCall?? Do you realize that he promised to shut down the blog if he could not provide 1,000 a week to pay bills, yet he hasn't paid a dime and ran away instead - just so he could keep his silly little blog? I can assure you Bob, that it will be to YOUR dismay to join Casey in his manic highs and lows. So what if he did make 100k off the blog?? He still owes the IRS and his creditors hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Don't give up integrity for a little publicity - it just isn't worth it. I personally will transfer all 650 domain names of mine to Moniker and will suggest publicly that all Casey's "detractors" do the same. And there are many many of us.

One question Bob - do YOU support Casey Serin?

They're backkkkkkkkkkkkkk... said...

They're backkkkkkkkkkkkkk...

Oh nooooooooooooo :::grabs head:::

I guess the podcast is over and they need another Casey fix!!!!!!!!

Now kids,

The grown ups have been here talking nicely all day. Go take your bath and go straight to bed. No more Casey for you tonight. Its bad for your teeth

:::wags right index finger:::

Hello Dooosh Baggs said...

Where is the Casey content today???

Baffled said...

May I ask very politely - was there a Sharkcast tonight??? I have not seen anyone remark on it.

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh... said...

CASEY STRAYS PLEASE GO TO:

1. Insert Clever Title here

2. What Casey Means to Say

3. Casey is a bitch

4. Don't Hate Casey...or I think you should

Ummmmmmmmm...that should keep you busy tonight. Unbelievable as it seems, there are people here who are sick of the Casey drivel. Talk about him but not ONLY here. Show the other sites a little love will you. Some of us here like "boring" issues like urban planning and transportation sometimes.

Akubi said...

OT, but it would seem everything on this thread is at this point, but does this study seem accurate to you? My bf provided it as an example of my f-ed up nature.

Anonymous said...

Yes there was a hatercast, about 1:30 worth (Shark was feaking the effects of the pain meds so it was fairly short).

And sorry "old" en'rs this is the center of the haterz universe, until Rob Dawg says otherwise its likely to stay that way.

0 Comment Sway-Bee said...

@ 7:57 PM, Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh:

May we a assume that you are from Buffalo and are angry that your house won't sell at $35K?

Or are you just angry?

Mortified said...

FMW sed:

I am pre Casey too, and what is the dif, we can do both.

I dropped by here a few times in the year 2006 B.C. (Before Casey). It was not as much fun as today. PS - FMW is da bomb!

Benoit™ said...

Anyone wishing to e-mail or call Parsons -- to encourage him not to treat Casey with kid gloves -- can find his contact info at Caseypedia.

I don't know if the segment has already been recorded, but it never hurts to try.

The Dude said...

My bf provided it as an example of my f-ed up nature.

HUH? Does that have anything to do with your comments on the HaterzCast tonight? :o)

Hello Dooosh Baggs said...

Where is the Casey content today???

Kerriella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tesla said...

coitdeck said...
"Buffalo has one of the best grocery store chains: Wegmans. It also has a fabulous Art Gallery: The Albright Knox. It also has a minor league baseball team the Bisons, where families can gather, have a great time, not fight crowds, park close to the stadium that is right downtown. If you live in the burbs and commute, your rush hour is short and you don't get stuck in the traffic. You can also hop over the bridge to Canada in 15 minutes, be on a beurtiful lakeshore, go to the canadian Niagara Falls or Niagara on the lake. All these things are wonderful. Amherst, one of the suburbs that I grew up in, has the lowest crime rate in the nation. You can live in a beautiful mansion that will cost under $500,000"

Upstate NY has a lot going for it, I agree with you. The light traffic is something that I miss a lot. The state just needs to become a cheaper place to do business. Unfortunately I don't see that changing anytime soon. Everyone knows that NY has high taxes and strict regulations. No one wants to do anything about it because there are too many pigs at the public trough (pigs who vote, that is). A lot of the rural counties are dying and all they do is beg for more money from Albany. You never hear the local papers say "we need to make ourselves more competitive". (The city of Syracuse did, however, see fit to pay that douce Richard Florida to give his light and fluffy talk about how to bring the "creative class" to the city).

Kerriella said...

Ok after reading that last comment I realized that sounded bad so I will rephrase it.

I am not sure whats going on with all the hate towards people talking about Casey and I don't feel like reading through hundreds of posts to try and figure it out.

Until this gets straightened out, if I am not imposing, I did a post on my blog today about Casey so if anyone would like to post their thoughts there, your more than welcome.

Rob, if you feel I am over stepping by making the offer please don't hesitate to delete my post. I will totally understand.

king friday the 13th said...

Wegmans rocks. I have lived in
Phoenix, Silicon Valley, Michigan, Wisconsin, Chicago, Philadephia but NOTHING compares to Wegmans in Upstate NY.

Closest is Whole Foods, but they rob you blind if you are not careful. I love Wegmans...

Another Lurker Mouse said...

Hey guys.

Doesn't it seem odd that now is when "old" en-ers start complaining about Casey being featured on this blog.

No one spoke up and complained when Rob made it the subject of several threads.

I'm guessing that this is just another tactic by Marty's guys to get the major contributors to shut up and go away. They're trying to break up the community so that people stop talking about Casey.

Of course, Rob, if I'm wrong and you want us to stop talking about Casey, that's a different case.

CHJTS said...

one hundred and murst bitches

stick that in your cornhole and bounce on a blueball with it

Anonymous said...

From a discussion on ProBlogger.net about "Donations on Blogs - Do They Work?"

http://www.problogger.net/archives/2007/05/31/donations-on-blogs-do-they-work/#comment-1242224

Hi Darren,

I’d like to share another ‘word of warning’ about placing PayPal donation buttons that was shared with me by a high-profile affiliate marketer friend.

A visitor to his site made a donation thinking that the money would go to a charity, despite the fact that there was no mention of any charitable organization on the site - just a request for ‘donations’.

The visitor then requested a receipt for tax purposes.

When a receipt naming a registered charity couldn’t be provided, the guy who made the donation complained to PayPal.

Paypal responded by locking the account, freezing the funds (a sizeable amount) and the matter is now going to court.

So, the point would be — watch how you word those PayPal donation buttons! “Buy Me a ____” is good, whereas “Donate ____” could land you in a world of trouble.

Anonymous said...

Anyone stupid enough to click on a "donate" button and ASSUMING it is a registered nonprofit with no explicit indication of that fact is an idiot.

Galinas well hung lover said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8YFZJK3arg casey sings his farewell song.

Enough Already said...

No one is asking to "break up" your lil community. Just take it elsewhere when we are discussing "other" issues. Don't you very bloggers have your own blogs. Why have a "Casey is a Bitch" blog if you are not going to bitch over there? Franklin this has gone on long enough. The world is passing you by as you obssess about Casey. But kindly do as you wish in a "Casey" thread or "Casey" intended blog.

First? said...

The "First" nonsense is evident of your ignorance. At least make a relevant comment related to the thread upon claiming the jubiliant
"First." WHAT IDIOTS!!!

Johnny B. Good said...

Pre-Casey EN'ers...

Take it up with Rob. He has selected to host (and feed) a large group of very vocal people with a strong agenda.

If Rob says go away and stops posting Casey stuff, I'll go.

If Rob says 'This is an urban planning post. Don't post Casey stuff here,' I won't post to that thread.

Until then fuhgeddaboudit. Your timing could not be worse. You start speaking at the same time as the troll attacks start. Try again with better timing and you might have more credibility.

Rob Dawg said...

Is good to be back. Just a quick skim of the comments. lots to think about. lots to respond to. Feels like 4AM to my East Coast bioclock. Zzzzs then rational posts. Tomorrow.

Buffed said...

Always interesting to see how easy it is for Americans to treat their entire history as disposable, while decrying 'government planning.'

As if the entire structure of American's auto-centric transportation is not the result of government planning - following Eisenhower's concerns regarding military necessity. One hopes that know enough of your history to understand Eisenhower didn't decide to build Americans autobahns because he was impressed with Hitler - Eisenhower was involved first attempt to drive a number of cars across the U.S.A.

A wretched experience - http://www.il50.com/1919convoy.html However, note the parameters of this 'PR campaign'- The convoy was to operate as if the country was at war and that an Asiatic enemy had destroyed railroad lines, bridges, and tunnels.' What a fantastic scenario - in the real world of the last 10 years, we still use ships and trains (how do you think all the tanks left Germany, home of the autobahn - on trains, of course) to send soldiers to countries where oil exists to ensure that Americans can keep driving, in case an enemy was to invade us.

Too continue from the article, at least in terms of how 'uninvolved' government was in creating America's road network -
'The end of the war also inspired the leaders of the Good Roads Movement to resume their public relations (PR) campaign to convince the public to demand better roads from state and local governments. The PR campaign had been put on hold during the 1917-1918 period while America was engaged in WWI. Early in 1919, Lincoln Highway Association leader Harry Ostermann had persuaded the War Department to conduct a transcontinental motor convoy trip from the East Coast to San Francisco on the marked route of the Lincoln Highway.'

Nice to see that corporate welfare has a long tradition - people who think that bad choices come only from government, and good choices only from private companies obviously knows nothing about their own history - maybe a little history would help.

Oh - the way Germany retained functional city cores? They built parking garages downtown, and enforeced auto-free areas. Not too surpisingly, the merchants loved this solution, the people living downtown loved this solution, and for a generation, German cities didn't rot out like American ones.

I guess the foreignness of this idea of partnership, where various interests hammer out a compromise which seems to work for all, especially over the longer term, is part of why Americans are so proud to be exurban.

Next, we can talk about how the German health system, which is horribly expensive compared to first rate systems like France's, still costs a third less than America's miserable system, while essentially covering everyone - especially children, as children automatically receive free health care. Which not so coincidentally means that children, the future of any culture intending to exist over the long term, are treated as if their health is important to everyone.

Which is the sort of bottom line truth that anyone with a bit of reasonable understanding of the long term finds so incomprehensible in today's America - like letting entire cities for no good reason, and even reading the thoughts of someone who proudly claims that exurbia is a higher state of civilization (which in terms word roots, is as crazy as thinking debt=wealth), while considering plundering the older, higher quality materials of past American manufacturers. Yes, hard as it may be to imagine, crumbling Buffalo, Detroit, Gary, etc. were actually built using American materials manufactured in American plants using American labor - unionized, to boot - unlike today's exurban masterpieces, using the world's sweatshops for all that gorgeous faux fittings and fixtures.

Unlike the Americans who built Buffalo, with a clear view of the future they shared (which just happened to include such socialist ideas as unions, pensions, and a better future for their children through public schools and universities), today's Americans appear unable grasp how to even maintain what they have, while dreaming of private wealth that needs to be protected from the ravening hordes of their fantasies.

Anonymous said...

Rob,

You need to get this out again because it shows Casey true selfish manipulative lying character:

CASEY HOLD BEG-A-THON TO FUND MORE NRU CLASSES IN EARLY APRIL!

we need a write up and this issue pressed further.

Even Nigel noted: "Casey launched the beg-a-thon money to see if you would bite. It was a test and it worked. Why do you think he is asking for bids on his website or travel money while he is overseas?"


Keep pressing this issue!!

Thanks,

Mikey

samk said...

Just a note. Those laser boresights you can buy for ~$35? Worth every dirty penny. Spent last night sighting in my scope. Woke up this morning. Mr. Groundhog was happily munching grass out by the barn. Pulled out the rifle, laid the crosshairs on his midsection...squeezed the trigger ever so slowly. He dropped like a bag or rocks. My experience is that those boresights are an excellent addition to your shooting kit.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Another Lurker Mouse,
You are exactly right LM, it is an old tact called "divide and conquer", imo.
Kerriella fell for it and saw an opportunity to pitch her sight.
Anyway, the trolls are trying to sound intellectual now after the flaming and high school stuff did not work.

Tesla said...

Buffed said...
"Always interesting to see how easy it is for Americans to treat their entire history as disposable, while decrying 'government planning.'
Unlike the Americans who built Buffalo, with a clear view of the future they shared (which just happened to include such socialist ideas as unions, pensions, and a better future for their children through public schools and universities), today's Americans appear unable grasp how to even maintain what they have, while dreaming of private wealth that needs to be protected from the ravening hordes of their fantasies. "

Well Buffed, no one is stopping you from buying blocks of homes in Buffalo, Detroit, or Gary. Since it's so important to you to maintain cities at any cost you're welcome to preserve all that you want to. I bet the city governments would be more than happy to have someone own and restore crumbling buildings.

Buffed said...

Tesla -
it isn't important to me in the least, actually. What I find striking is the idea that plundering Buffalo for exurban accessories has a stark resemblance to Romans tearing apart the no longer required public buildings of their formerly impressive city.

It isn't that the cities are left to rot by government or the marketplace - it is the fact they are rotting at all, and the citizenry finds this acceptable. The idea that 'light rail' will be the death knell for other cities is too amusing for me to even imagine - this is truly a fun place to read, at the end of the largest bubble in human history

America no longer even seems to have any understanding of how wasteful it has become. And it looks like all that financial engineering, which seems to have replaced the real engineering originally done in places like Buffalo, will be subjected to its first real world test, sooner than the engineers had intended - that is, before they could cash their year end bonus checks. They never planned any longer than that anyways.

Sharky said...

Buffed:

Interesting POV, but I do have to bust yer chops over a few things you said:

"Unlike the Americans who built Buffalo, with a clear view of the future they shared (which just happened to include such socialist ideas as unions..."

Huh? What Commie booshwah are you talking about?

I'm a union man, 3rd generation in fact, and there's NOTHING more Capitalist than workers organizing to seek maximum return for their investment, (which happens to be their labor).
Fundamentally this is no different than a group of venture capital-types partnering up, is it?

"Oh - the way Germany retained functional city cores? They built parking garages downtown, and enforeced auto-free areas."

Well, let's be honest, bub. Germans don't, and historically haven't,owned cars like Americans,
(NOBODY owns cars like Americans), so enforcing an "auto-free" zone wasn't exactly a "Hoover Dam" in a largely pedestrian populace.

And...Germans, as well as a lot of other Europeans, don't own their own homes.

"Not too surpisingly, the merchants loved this solution, the people living downtown loved this solution, and for a generation, German cities didn't rot out like American ones."

Hmmm, sounds like a real Love-Fest.

Too bad about the Turkish Guest-Workers that you didn't mention, huh?

Anonymous said...

And...Germans, as well as a lot of other Europeans, don't own their own homes.

German home ownership is 42%, which is low for Europe (typically 50%-60%). While less than the US, its still a substantial part of the population.

Too bad about the Turkish Guest-Workers that you didn't mention, huh?

Irrelevant. The Turks are a disaster, but they didn't turn entire cities into Turk-only ghettos like blacks did to many US cities.


Sorry to shatter your delusion about Europe, Cletus. Why don't you take a trip outside of your county sometime.

Overwhelmed ENer said...

@ 6:19 FMW said:

"Another Lurker Mouse,
You are exactly right LM, it is an old tact called "divide and conquer", imo.
Kerriella fell for it and saw an opportunity to pitch her sight.
Anyway, the trolls are trying to sound intellectual now after the flaming and high school stuff did not work"

No one is trying to "divide" your pose woman. Regroup elsewhere or on a post that is strictly for Casey bashing.

I am an ENer who has just had enough of this lately. I noted that plenty of your mob even complain about the inabilty with keeping up with the content because of the circus atmosphere.

Keep hating Casey by all means but what about "Casey Haterz sites?" Not a bad suggestion I don't think.

Buffed said...

Sharky -
a couple of quick notes about Germans and cars - any idea who invented the automobile? Here is a hint - it wasn't an American.

As for car ownership - you are absolutely right, a significant number of Germans don't own cars - and they don't want to. It seems as if not having to spend money for a car allows them to enjoy their six week vacations with more cash, for example. And since Germans, cursed with being the world's largest exporting economy, haven't yet heard of the theory that mass transit destroys cities, they keep using transit instead of driving.

Yes, strange as it seems, in the land with the world's oldest and the world's most profitable car companies, a number of Germans think driving is something banal people turn to when they can't think of something better to do with their time.

As for those Turkish guest workers - they own a higher percentage of Mercedes than Germans - yes, it is reasons like that (Turks are also a larger proportion of small business owners than their population share, too) which tend to get hushed up in polite discussion. Of course, such facts are unlikely to have any influence on your opinions.

And though this may be striking for a blog concerning exurbia, just watch the American foreclosure rate over the next 10 years, then we can compare numbers again.

Of course, I rent my house - the rent has been unchanged for 10 years, and the house's pipes and gas heater were replaced before we moved in. Of course, the money this saves keeps me crying all the way to the bank - it also helped buying marks and Euros with my dollars, back when one dollar was worth considerably more than 2 marks or one euro - how things change over the years, even if my rent hasn't.

oPleeze said...

I think FMW needs to concentrate on her family and not whether Keriella is trying to hijack the blog.

Hey Rob Dawg... said...

Hey Rob Dawg,

I noticed these "haters" have no use for you if you are not feeding them Casey info. They don't even have the decency to sit back and engage in the discussions at hand. I have even seen negative comments posted about your choice of pics for posts. I find your choices brilliant by the way. I have even seen claims that EN was and is "boring" without Casey related info.

Looks to me like you are being disrespected in your own house. I protest NOW because lately it has really been more intolerable to engage in one consistent intelligent thought here.

Please have "Casey hatin'" posts seperate from your usual urban planning posts. Housing and transportation issues is what brings the likes of me here. If this is merely an "ihatecasey serinblog" then let us know so WE can move on. Thank you.

Kerriella said...

I regret making the offer last night and I would ask that anyone reading through the posts please disreguard it.

Sorry Rob, I went all Nigelly there for a minute.

I see that Rob got back from vacation so I am sure once he is rested up he will address this newest "Casey" issue.

Its Ok kariella said...

@ Kerriella 8:16

No problem hun. What you said was fine. Don't let FMW get to you. She is a pretty desperate woman. She happens to be highly addicted to Casey AND Rob Dawg. She is just trying to be selfish and lazy. She obviously juwt does not want to have to go to two places to feed your addiction.

Anonymous said...

Overwhelmed ENer said...

@ 6:19 FMW said:

"Another Lurker Mouse,
You are exactly right LM, it is an old tact called "divide and conquer", imo.
Kerriella fell for it and saw an opportunity to pitch her sight.
Anyway, the trolls are trying to sound intellectual now after the flaming and high school stuff did not work"

No one is trying to "divide" your pose woman. Regroup elsewhere or on a post that is strictly for Casey bashing.

I am an ENer who has just had enough of this lately. I noted that plenty of your mob even complain about the inabilty with keeping up with the content because of the circus atmosphere.

Keep hating Casey by all means but what about "Casey Haterz sites?" Not a bad suggestion I don't think.
+++++++++++++++++++++++=
I call Bull Sh!t on your comment, Troll with a new tact.
Go troll a buffalo sight.

Wondering said...

@Kerriella

I thought it was a kind offer and I'm sure most felt that way.

I thought netiquette always demanded respect for the thread topic and when I posted mistakenly, I was embarrassed.
When did that change?

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
OMG said...

That anonymous at 8;25AM was FMW
Can anone else see that???

Don't feed the trolls FMW.

Actually I don't think that was a troll.

C'mon FMW, have you been able to stand EN these days? Check other hater sites. Even other prominent haterz have said the same thing.

LOL at your anon moniker..."I seeeeeeeeeeeeee you"

DCRogers said...

@buffed 1:15 AM

"Unlike the Americans who built Buffalo, with a clear view of the future they shared (which just happened to include such socialist ideas as unions, pensions, and a better future for their children through public schools and universities), today's Americans appear unable grasp how to even maintain what they have, while dreaming of private wealth that needs to be protected from the ravening hordes of their fantasies."

While I have a lot of sympathy for your arguments, I must push back against this rosy-colored view of the past. At the time Buffalo (and Detroit) was built, the labor (like my great-grandfather) certainly didn't have unions or pensions; those was fought for, and won, only later. There may have been other communal advantages of the laissez-faire capitalist world they had when these cities were first built, but not those.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Netquette said...

someone just said that:

"netiquette always demanded respect for the thread topic"

That gets out of hand here.

All threads=Casey serin

"Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Casey Serin was on that side." (makes no sense)

Its all quite pathetic really.

I personally don't mind talking about Serin but just not ALL the damn time. Too much else going on out there.

LOL said...

DC Rogers I LOVE how you are ignoring these idots, FMW included and keeping on track with the discussion at hand LOL

Kerriella said...

I'm going to say one last thing then I have to go get ready for company.

FMW is right. Rob has never cared one wit about the threads getting highjacked. I actually can't think of any thread here an EN that WAS'NT highjacked at some point about something off topic. LOL That's the way things have always around here since I started coming here. Rob has always seemed to prefer that the conversation flow naturally rather than being a Nazi General ordering people "You post here" "NO That post is not allowed!!! Put it where it belongs!"

Come on! Does that sound like Rob to ANYONE? LOL

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

@ Kerriella,
Kewel, and thanks. You did not Drink the Troll Kool Aid.
(-:

LOL said...

I check in and of course FMW is here. (LOL) Its sunday morning FFS. Don't you go to church or something? How about family time? You are hooked woman. Sheeeeeeesh

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Good grief you are and idiot.
It is almost noon here, and I have had a very busy morning since 8:00 AM, but it is really none of your business, just posting to show what a attentiontard you are. Go find someone else to hitch your Troll wagon to.

Find another flame to fly too close to. I am putting you on "Troll Ignore Mode" oh 'troll of drivel'.

Anonymous said...

"+++++++++++++++++++++++=
I call Bull Sh!t on your comment, Troll with a new tact.
Go troll a buffalo sight."


FMW that WAS you at 8:25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have said the "new tact" thing before and you dumb woman, you ALWAYS say "sight" instead of "site"

Be a woman and own up to it!

They were right...you really ARE pathetic. ROFLMAO

Endgame said...

New post at IAFF.

A post about blogging about blogging.

Pretty content free.

No mention of G, where he's going next, etc.

Lou Minatti said...

New snowflake post.

Wondering said...

@Kerriella

Thanks, I feel relieved. Rob has been so gracious--didn't want to offend the host.

Lou Minatti said...

Casey on koalas:

"I learned that these guys sleep about 20 hours per day and when they are awake they spent most of the time munching on gum tree leaves. Man, what a life! SOOOOO CUTE!!!!"

The irony escapes him.

Lou Minatti said...

I predict a lot of Photoshopping with his latest batch of Flickr pics.

OLD ENer said...

Rob,

If you do go the all Casey, all day, all night, you will lose me. No fear. There were not that many people here. Now you have thousands checking in. But why not at least monetise your blog if that is the direction you are going?

Lou Minatti said...

ROFL! A photo of Casey being molested by a kangaroo! HAHAHA! Get him, Skippy!

Anonymous said...

Seeeeeeeeeee...they STILL go to IAFF even thou they claim they don't. They feed there and have their diarrhea here. I am sick of this.

Endgame said...

Like, he [Yaro] thinks I should do more to show people that I’m working to pay off debt.

Ahhh - KC agains tells a newbie part of the story.

Casey - first you have to start working to pay off debt, then you can do more to show people you're doing it.

Rob Dawg said...

For the record I occassionally ask that threads stay topical but between the criminal flight expose and my vacation it just wasn't worth the effort to enforce. The Alpha Dawg is back and there will be more order and a massive concentrated effort to deliver a better blog with the best of linear streams and topics. Oh, and a new Casey post and EN thread are both up.

Endgame said...

@At 8:58 AM, Anonymous said...
Seeeeeeeeeee...they STILL go to IAFF even thou they claim they don't. They feed there and have their diarrhea here. I am sick of this.

So sorry - which of us has a gun at your head forcing you to stay?

Haterz as Casey enablers said...

Rob,

You have come back well rested. Good. The more you "out" Casey, the more it appears you "hate" him, the more he becomes The Worlds Most Hated Blogger...his claim to fame. You are indirectly enabling him!!!

Rob Dawg said...

Casey wants everything he thinks he deserves. i just want Casey to get what he desreves. I try to make sure that in parceling out just deserts that no detail gets omitted. We all know Casey isn't a detail guy. Casey has always wanted to be the "most" something. clearly he doesn't care what that something may be. Did the MSM enable terrorism by reporting facts on 9/11?

Caseys Sex Life said...

Hello Rob Dawg,

I am glad you are back and refreshed. I have been busy swinging thru the jungles of Australia - my maker has sent me on this journey to recognize that all men evolved from monkeys, and I am no different. This spiritual voyage has awakened me to many possibilities for my future. Of course, as usual, I cannot say too much but BIG things are coming. One hint tho - I am joining two brothers on their quest to entertain the masses - they have asked me to be the star of their show. They want me just to be myself, and they say the people will line up to watch and listen to me. I can't wait to tour the world with my new friends, the Ringling Brothers!

Sweeeet!!!

Anonymous said...

the great lakes region is possibly a good place to invest in the future. at some time in the not too distant future according to some experts, there will be a mass migration out of the southwest US and southern states and back to the east, northeast and such. all due to lack of water. theres simply not enough water to sustain the population thats there now long term let alone a growing population. the water is running low, one expert suggested that the water crash will happen within 20 years.

Sharky said...

Anon:

" The Turks are a disaster, but they didn't turn entire cities into Turk-only ghettos like blacks did to many US cities.


Sorry to shatter your delusion about Europe, Cletus. Why don't you take a trip outside of your county sometime."

Uhhh, yeah. Okay...Adolf.

BTW, there's some neighborhoods in Munich you shouldn't try goose-stepping through.

We all know about France.

Roterdam's got entire apartment complexes chock-full of Surinamese expats,not the bet place to be (by Dutch standards), and don't even get me started on the UK...

But that's alright, I've never been ANYWHERE other than Pig Knuckle County.

Asshole...do you KNOW me?

Anonymous said...

Shut up, Mocha!!

Anonymous said...

Ironically, I just left Buffalo last week, helping a bank with consulting on subprime loan servicing and loss mitigation practices. I have to say, there are a lot of towns in the rust belt with this problem of rapidly declining values, no sustainable economy. However, I am rooting for Buffalo. It is a great town, with some of the friendliest people I have ever met. I think if maybe they can get their senator Hillary to bring in some business, or maybe if they can capitalize on the fact that they are so close to Niagara Falls, they may have a 'win-win' so to speak. Of all the rust belt metropolis' (Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, or South Bend). I think Buffalo has the greatest shot.