Monday, June 04, 2007

No SSN Required


$425,000 Loan for only $1,417/mo.† Refinance Now!
4 Flexible Payment Options! Bad Credit Options!

Simple 2-minute form
No Social Security number required
Access to over 200 lenders nationwide
Up to 5 FREE mortgage lender matches †
What Happens Next?
Get fast results
Let lenders compete for your business
Find a great rate for your new loan
-----

Now what demographic is taking the riskiest loans? What happens to people with SSNs competing for the same pool of cash?

37 comments:

The Dude said...

FIRST

Big Cheese said...

I'm FIRST to get that loan.

Big Cheese said...

Aww dude you suck big dawg ballz.

All because my girlfriend distracted me. Looser.

-BC

The Dude said...

Sorry, the temptation was overwhelming...I slipped. Back to the 12 step FIRST program for me.

The Dude said...

Now, on topic.....

Why the big deal about not having to have a SSN? You can get all the SSN's you want from a street corner in any decent size city?...50 bucks.

Nobody is actually checking the validity of the numbers so why the big deal about having a number?

Until the "authorities" realize the folks BEATING the system know more about the system than they do....things won't change.

Big Cheeze said...

It's ALL GOOD as long as the lender re-sells that loan into a CDO before the bogus SSN comes up.

It's not unlike speeding or claiming owner occupancy.

mejustme said...

My friend is a lawyer who represents the gov't in immigration court. He sees people in deportation proceedings all the time who have menial jobs but have mortgages way bigger than his. Most of these cases drag on for years, so that means lenders are routinely giving mortgages to people who are in the middle of being deported -- quite a risk, I'd say.

aaron said...

anyone have the link to the latest podcast?

LOL said...

Unless these are hard money loans a SS number will be required at some point. I'd say this is an ad for a company selling leads to Swaby-like creatures.

lurker said...

Remembering an old article about the economics of spam. The going rate for a mortgage lead was around $25. The people who do respond to your ad are forwarded to mortgage brokers.

Rob Dawg said...

The thing about fishing with bait like "no ssn req'd" is that you know what kind of fish you are looking for. That means the money you are preferentially seeking to loan to riskier clients is less money in the global pool available to lend to qualified applicants.

We all know that were the process to get to that point a SSN would magically appear anyway.

lurker said...

But the person spamming this ad is primarily looking for responses that he can sell. A person like Casey is far more likely to respond to this ad and generate dollars for the spammer, than you or I who could easily get a loan.

The Dude said...

....lurker.....

This brings us to another tactic being used. People are setting up "fake" offers to build databases as opposed to offering actual goods and services.

Don't ya just love the wild, wild world of the internet?

Big Cheese...."distracted"? Only Loosers let themselves get distracted

Anonymous said...

There is 1 company out there that will lend to borrowers with no SSN. They have to have a legal alien with a valid tax ID. It's not a program to avoid using your SSN, rather it's for borrower's with NO SSN.

lurker said...

I assume your ad is from Lending Tree. They do go after the subprime market. Their 2 minuite form requires name and address. With that I assume they can look up my SSN.

Big Cheese said...

@ dude. Distracted indeed. And not even by a big shiny thing... lol

Joe Dirt said...

I tried to use Lending Tree about 4 months ago. Funny thing is, no one competed for my loan. I have excellant credit and I got 4 offers all saying the same thing. When I talked to each on the phone they all told me I would get the same % rate from everyone, but each would provide better service and would be there if I needed them. (of course when pushed they all said my loan would be sold within the first day).

I finally found someone that I was able to negotiate down to 5.2% (no points) on a fixed 30yr. Oh and I did give my SSN to them, so maybe that's why I got what I did?

Lending tree charged $750 once a lender gets a mortage (who then turn that back on the customer) and really doesn't do much but pass information along to mortage brokers (not lenders).

Just my .02 cents on them.

R-Boy said...

Interesting Economic Factoid of the day

Our best guess at the cost of illegal immigration on GDP : ~.07%

Current cost of anti-II efforts ~.10%

Cost of anti-II efforts with new bill = alot higher.

Paying more money than something is worse: Casey-less.

(We'd be better off giving everyone a fricking refund. Sometimes I wonder why I am a govvie)

dm said...

So, not being familiar with this sort of thing... What kind of commissions does, say, an entry level loan office make when he closes a loan?

I know that on a 200,000 loan, it's likely that you'll pay 150,000 - 200,000 in interest over the 30 year life of the loan. (Assuming a traditional 30 year...) So there's big money (potentially) for whoever is putting the cash in the pot.

Considering that the loan is usually sold, how much does the company selling the loan make on it?

In turn, how much commission does a loan officer bring in?

Just curious.

lurker said...

There are people who can give a much better answer than me. I believe an avergae honest loan will net a couple thousand in commission. When I purchased my house, the initial offer from a broker had $9000 more in fees than the mortgage I took. I suspect that mortgage officer would have made a very nice commission.

Rob Dawg said...

R-Boy,
You are making the classic mistake of including in GDP the costs of unecessary expenditures (repairing broken windows myth). My classic is the 24 translators employed by the county to translate Mixteca to Spanish so that Mixtecans can access social services. Those 24 highly paid people are a drain on the economy several times over yet they are counted as an economic contributor to the GDP.

Rob Dawg said...

The lack of transparency in mortgage brokering (nad lending in general) is one of the things I hope changes in the current crisis.

I can forsee a "whiteboard" solution. This is a collaborative method of matching supply and demand. Put up on mBay (Mortgage Bidding system) bids and asks and let a white board manager match up say 100 diverse borrowers and 100 lenders. The lenders understand they will be buying a portion of a pool not individual loans. Everyone gets to review and bid or drop out. A pooled dutch auction on the lender side. Gosh this can't be any tougher than than those airfare bidding sites and should have similar cost loads.

R-Boy said...

Rob Dawg,

Actually those figures took that into account (basically a counterfactual of "What would the US economy look like without any illegal vs. with")

I would've criticized it for the problems inherent in aggregation. We're obviously not refunding folks in Maine who live out on the seashore.

As per the mortgage topic, I am not normally in favor of market regulation, because most of the time the market clears itself. However, this doesn't seem to be the case here, and unlike a mistake of buying a lemon for a car...getting underwater in a mortgage is not only an economic jail sentence for those involved, but for the system itself.

JJS said...

@Rob Dawg

Prosper.com is a system similar to that for private loans (up to ~$25k). As Prosper grows, mortgages and car loans seem like the most likely new areas for growth.

dm said...

I've wondered if Prosper could support mortgage loans. It seems like its tough to even get 25k loans fully funded. I haven't looked around all that much, though...

In this real estate market, as an investor, I'd be very skeptical about lending for a mortgage, especially with people like fliptard out there. If they'll lie on a mortgage app, they'll sure as hell lie on the internet.

The Dude said...

M Brokers make that kind of commission because people think they HAVE to pay..which is what they want them to think.

F*CK those kinds of fees; I simply have not, do not, and will not pay. I believe everyone should be fairly compensated for their time and talent, but c'mon....$9k for doing exactly WHAT?????

Closing costs on the house I just bought was $120. My purchase was a little different from most, but there were junk fees that they tried to slip in....simply say NO. Competition for good loans is cut throat so use the leverage to hammer out a deal that's in your best interest.

Rant mode off

Mozatta said...

@ DM 8:39

It depends on the split the loan officer is receiving. Those with little experience who don't have to get their own leads and are working from an office typically get anywhere from 25%-50% of the total fees brought into the company. This excludes title fees, etc. Those who have to get their own leads typically get anywhere from 60%-100% of the fees they bring in, minus any company expenditures. Most 100% LOs have to pay either a desk fee or a per file processing fee of around $500 or so. They get limited support, etc.

Now those working at say Wells Fargo or Countrywide usually either get paid in basis points on the total pipeline or they get like $200 a file. If they get the basis points on total pipeline, say they do 5 200K loans, they'd get like .015% of 1,000,000.

Some LOs working at Wells Fargo get a 25K salary and typically clear 35K-50K a year, but they don't have to search for leads. I know some LOs that make 50K and some that make 150K, so it depends. One of the top producers last year made 3M. He also have a staff of 15 people doing the work for him.

Mozatta said...

@ the Dude

The "f*** you" mentality works for those with great credit and plenty of equity, etc. We don't make money off them and I rarely focus on them. But if you have a 510 credit score, you had 2 mortgage lates recently and very little equity, you don't have room to negotiate. There are people out there struggling and will do a loan for basically nothing, but when I have a client who says that, I ask them to question why their broker is doing it for free. There's a reason. I know what I am doing, I do it well, and I feel I am looking out for my clients. The only times I've charged in excess of 9K on a file was for a commercial loan and a hard money loan where I was saving the client from losing their home. Is 9K worth saving your home by working with someone who knows their shit? Yes. Is paying 9K to have Swabnuts do your loan? Absolutely not.

dm said...

Thanks for that mozatta.

So, if you fall in the middle of the crowd, you can expect to maybe clear 50k or so. That's not that great. Doesn't seem like nearly enough to afford a BMW, an indoor pool and a 25k gallon pond with koi (as in the type of fish)... :)

I hope the guy who cleared 3M put some rainy day money away. I think things will get stormier for them in the near future...

LOL said...

One other reason to adv "no SSN" that comes to mind is that giving SSN info to Lending Tree or a similiar mortgage lead seller can result in multiple credit pulls.

I know this for a fact because it happened to me while mortgage shopping last year. My score is high enough that the 30 point drop had no effect, that may not be true for someone who has say a 620 fico score.

Stephanie J. said...

^Click my name and complete the little Haterz™ polls I put there.

Thanks Haterz™.

Mozatta said...

@ dm

Well a lot of brokers made a lot of money before 2005-2006 and went out and spent it all. 50-60K is easy to make if you know what you're doing. The thing is, a lot are making 100K but a lot are making less than 50K so it brings the average down.

The dude who made 3M has been making that pretty steady for quite some time. He's out in CA and deals with high-net worth people. He did 3000 loans in 2006. Cohen Financial is the name of his company I belive.

Anonymous said...

Once again, this community amazes me. I believe you (Rob and the rest of your clan) are looking way too deeply at things. Not everything is a scam or a sign of loose credit policies (although I do agree some serious evaluation of current underwriting standards are needed – a topic for another day).

Since most consumers are apprehensive to provide their SSN, this is a way for the broker (sales person) to “pre-qualify” a potential client based on the client’s own assessment of their credit standing; ie “Excellent, good, fair” etc. That way there is once less potential road block for the broker (sales person) to overcome. Lack of confrontation makes any sale easier. Since most consumers are afraid of confrontation (actually being SOLD something), this is a very viable tactic to “make the phones ring” at the broker’s office. It also allows the broker (sales person) to pique interest in a product based on an “excellent” credit rating, providing an opportunity to change pricing and fees down the road when the SSN is obtained and an actual credit report is obtained. It’s a beautiful thing.

Rob Dawg said...

Anon,
You make a good point about the ssn and pre-qual but the time has come for consumers to understand their personal data has value and giving it away is not wise. Easy loans are not good policy. "No ssn" is a false security regardless. Cross indexing and public records lookups make it unnecessary most of the time for these salespeople.

Mozatta said...

@ Anon,

You can pre-approve people all you want based on what the customer thinks, but a majority of people don't understand and realize what their credit profile is. I've had people who swore they had good credit but when I pulled it, they had crummy credit. I've also had people who said they had bad credit but when I pulled it, they had good credit.

This no SSN ad is illegal and misleading. Every loan requires a SSN. Like I said, I have 1 bank that provides a No SSN loan, but like I mentioned above, it's for legal aliens who don't have a SSN, but DO have a valid tax id. I tried advertising this program, but all I got were people who had bad credit and thought they could avoid this by using a tax id. No SSN is not a way around using your SSN, it's for people who truly do not have one.

H Simpson said...

9:29

I was up early yesterday awaiting the start of the LV races in Spain. But they had not started so I clicked on the Gardening by the yard show. The whole show was on koi and koi ponds. Laughed hard for 30 minutes.

And no, Nigel did not show up as an award winning pundit.

Casey Serin said...

SHWEEEEEEEEEEET!