Monday, June 04, 2007

A whole New Crop of Exploitation

Reuters has an interesting "horse gone, barn door still open" article. In the face of surging foreclosures Massachusetts is trying to reign in foreclosure rescue schemes.

"These 'rescuers' take a bad situation -- foreclosure -- and make it worse by liquidating any remaining equity in homes to their own advantage and the homeowners' detriment,"

Now that the serial refi scam is shutting down it appears the predatory practices have just gone from agressive lending to protecting against those same lending consequences.

105 comments:

Anonymous said...

Murst? Hello? Anybody here?
-RB

jiggy said...

first murst?

jiggy said...

dangit, knew it was too good to be true....

Stephanie J. said...

^Click my name and complete the little Haterz™ polls I put there.

Thanks Haterz™.

Anonymous said...

Heh... I pulled that one out at the buzzer.
-RB

1000 a weak said...

At some point regulation has to be the answer. I hate myself for having to say this, but applying Microsoftian tactics to the real estate industry would not necessarily be a bad thing.

One unified process for purchasing a house. One unified process for refinancing a house. One unified process for selling a house. Get rid of all of the fly-by-night RE boiler rooms. Axe the pay-option ARM. Get rid of the words "negative amortization" from the vocabulary.

The Linux model just doesn't apply to real estate, because we don't have the nerds-who-are-also-fairly-moral crowd at the heart of the REIC. It's unfortunate.

Huck Finn said...

Yahoo! Finance had a Forbes article listed as a featured read. In it, the writer talks about how some homeowners managed to avoid foreclosure because their lawyers found loopholes (i.e. lender can't foreclose because they packaged and sold the loan to Wall Street).

How can people claim the mortgage industry is predatory when there is a loophole that probably saved 10 people from loosing their homes?

I'm with 1000 a weak - there has to be some regulation, but I don't think uniformity is the way to go.

The rich would continue to get way richer via property acquisitions which they would rent (and raise rates on) for sweet cashflow. The poor would continue to rent through infinity and beyond.

The sad thing is the 'twixt now and whenever regulation comes into play, you will see hundreds of articles similar to the ones you posted today (NO SSN? NO PROBLEM!! WE TAKE YOUR EQUITY AND THEN FORECLOSE!!).

Anonymous said...

Nigel takes a stab at "Distressed properties" and gets one slightly critical response.

Also, did you guys know his blog is worth 60K? According to a new gadget on the site, it says the blog is worth that much!?!?!? WTF?

Anonymous said...

It is only worth 60K if someone is willing to pay that much.

Maybe he can sell it KC with some sweet cashback at closing?

Rob Dawg said...

Nigel doesn't let truly critical comments show up.

The How much is your blog worth is simply based upon the number of fixed inbound links. That's why the pathetic linkwhore has been pursuing all those carnival awards. IIRC the price is based on some purchase a few years back of a website based on just its traffic imputation. No one would actually pay $20k for EN or $60k for SLCRE. I always hought it was an inside joke.

Anonymous said...

1000 a weak
One unified process for purchasing a house. One unified process for refinancing a house. One unified process for selling a house. Get rid of all of the fly-by-night RE boiler rooms. Axe the pay-option ARM. Get rid of the words "negative amortization" from the vocabulary.

Are you kidding me? There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a uniform real estate transaction. They are all uniquely different.


I agree the option arm is a product that is grossly inappropriate for the vast majority of home owners… I would further that by saying 90% or more of the option arms securing real estate today are probably the wrong product. There is however a definite position for that debt strategy. That is why it exists and has been used with great success by the wealthy for years. It is NOT the right product for a family of median income who is over their head with a home they can not afford. Abolishing the loan type is the wrong approach. CONSUMER EDUCATION is the answer.

Thank you.

Rob Dawg said...

Shoot me now but I think County Recorder Offices should be more like the DMV. Other than the number of digits in the transaction what is different about buying a house or car?

We are all struggling with the balance of consumer education and consumer protection.

king friday the 13th said...

Only ONE regulation is needed: A bank must hold EVERY mortgage it originates for DURATION.

Note, this is how the mortgage industry operated until that simple requirement was removed.

No-doc loans disappear. All the other shenanigans go away too, since the incentive to make bad loans is taken away.

See. This is a perfect example of how limited government interaction to make sure banks live with the consequences of bad loans is all that is required.

king friday the 13th said...

Bob Dawg, I agree with you about the DMV comment.

Dolph said...

Maybe I am late to the party but has anybody noticed that CS's flickr account is now disabled?

Anonymous said...

At the Dawg,

There are many notable differences, the most glaring being the fact a vehicle is a machine. If you would like to qualify that machine as an asset (most would agree a vehicle is a liability). Most make monthly payments on their installment loans until the machine is paid for… when that painful process is complete, the “asset” you own is valued MUCH less than you have paid for it…

Please don’t misunderstand me, I have had a lot of enjoyment reading your blog over the last couple months and would be the first to compliment you (Rob) and your readers…obviously intelligent people, I just feel that on many occasions you re off the mark…comparing a real estate transaction to a vehicle purchase is one of those times.

Thank you.

R-Boy said...

Dolph

Thats right its gone.

Sadly, I have the whole shebang already copied.

Darn.

Huck Finn said...

@ king friday

Only ONE regulation is needed: A bank must hold EVERY mortgage it originates for DURATION.

If this were to happen, banks would tighten credit to incredible levels and subprime would either dry up completely or fraud would get worse.

Again, the rich would get richer and the renters would continue to rent.

I don't think there can be one easy winner-takes-all rule as it pertains to real estate transactions.

LOL said...

Face it, the current land records situation in most counties makes the state DMV look like a bunch of rocket scientists.

Can you imagine needing to buy title ins for your car (and paying through the nose for it)?

Didn't think so

Stephanie J. said...

@R-boy
That's good to know for future Photoshop-evilness.

Akubi said...

Vote on the 6 Degrees of Casey Serin™ to Chairman Mao Win-Win Winner!

Rob Dawg said...

At the Dawg,

There are many notable differences, the most glaring being the fact a vehicle is a machine. If you would like to qualify that machine as an asset (most would agree a vehicle is a liability). Most make monthly payments on their installment loans until the machine is paid for… when that painful process is complete, the “asset” you own is valued MUCH less than you have paid for it…


I'm so freakin' ancient that I've actually met Buckminster Fuller. Houses are living machines just like autos are mobility machines. I don't see a difference. Besides some of those transportation machines gain value eh? Last week I looked at the KBB dealer resale for my Civic. It is higher than I paid new. Can you get a 67 1/2 Mustang for MSRP or even inflation adjusted MSRP?

You are mislead by recent unusual housing price increases.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I have had a lot of enjoyment reading your blog over the last couple months and would be the first to compliment you (Rob) and your readers…obviously intelligent people, I just feel that on many occasions you re off the mark…comparing a real estate transaction to a vehicle purchase is one of those times.

Please, press your legitimate position. I mildly disagee and need your perspectives. Things change. PreWW-II houses were 40 year investments and automobiles were 2 year purchases. By 2005 houses were a 7 year commitment and autos almost 5. And it isn't just the timeframe but the ability to track assets with technology.

Hobbes said...

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but haven't some states (Ohio?) done away with Title insurance by just requiring registration of all deeds, just like Dawg is talking about? And don't they still sell land in Ohio or whatever state or states where that occurred?

king friday the 13th said...

@huck finn --

valid points. but, until you remove the incentive for originating too many loans to generate fees, you will not address the problem. The fraud problem was mostly self-contained when these regulations were used in the past (up until mid 90's).

Banks had an incentive to police themselves, which is no longer the case. Either increase enforcement to draconian levels (we all pay), or eliminate disintermediation.

Bob Dawg respectfully disagrees with this...

Huck Finn said...

The question I have in rebuttal is this: is it that banks were able to package the loans and sell them to a third party that created the problem, or was it that there were no regulations in place (loose standards) as far as how mortgages could be written?

I'd propose the latter, but I could be wrong. The problem was exposed, in my opinion, due to historically low interest rates. People saw these low rates and realized they could afford more home, which in turn allowed sellers to reprice their homes. This started the hyper acceleration in home prices, which forced (or allowed) unregulated creative financing packages.

As is the case with any business model with few rules, a few rogue brokers took it to the next level - and consumers either didn't education themselves about the risks or turned a blind eye.

The rogue brokers turned real estate in a churn-and-burn industry, much like stock brokers of old (and, admittedly, like some current stock jockeys). The SEC has stemmed part of the fraud in the stock world, but there are still a few cases of misbehavior.

If there were some governing body for the mortgage industry, I think we can still have many loan options, but brokers would think twice about what they are offering potential buyers - and even those with less than stellar credit and/or first time home buyers would still be able to call a house a home.

Anonymous said...

How has your Honda Civic appreciated? I am no expert in automobile valuations and am shocked about that. I guess I should have been out buying Honda Civics all this time, could have made a fortune.

You are absolutely correct about some cars increasing in value. The Mustang example is far from the rule. Some do increase… I have seen a gentleman I know turn some profit over the years buying and selling new exotic cars. Again, this is not the generally accepted rule.

Forgive my lack of knowledge of Mr. Fuller, but of what relevance his is Geodesic Dome? I am sure I am missing something and therefore can not make the connection. I am a fan of his stance on renewable/sustainable energy…have always been. Please help me make the connection.

Thank you

Property Flopper said...

Rob Dawg Said:

Shoot me now but I think County Recorder Offices should be more like the DMV. Other than the number of digits in the transaction what is different about buying a house or car?

You don't often hear about an easement through your car, nor do you need to have a surveyor tell you where your car starts and ends. Rarely does anyone sell the mineral rights to their car. Casey may attempt to homestead his car, but... :)

While there are a number of differences between cars and property, you do make a valid point - the process could be trimmed down quite a bit.

segfault said...

I saw this link on MSN:
Spa Lofts

I note that they are located in the overcrowded and traffic nightmare of Las Vegas. I also note that, of the several people pictured on the website, all of them except the rent-a-cop are young females. With prices starting at $450,000, I'm sure this depiction accurately reflects the demographic makeup of the community.

Huck Finn said...

Thinking about it more, I think it was a combo platter of loose standards and the ability of the bank to sell the loans.

Thinking more, if banks knew they could dump the funky new loans, they didn't have as much at stake -which allowed them to loosen their loan standards.

Then again, aren't we dealing with shady mortgage brokers, mostly independent or dealing solely with mortgages (i.e. the defunct New Century) than regular banks?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

I don't think we can place blame solely on the fact that banks could unload their riskier loans, nor can we entirely blame loose regulation.

1000 a weak said...

There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a uniform real estate transaction. They are all uniquely different.

WHY?

Everyone I talk to about a standardized real estate business process has yet to provide solid evidence beyond the "everything is so different!" tagline.

Yes, peoples credit and finances are different, yes the terms of purchasing a house are different, but there are a finite number of scenarios. Part of applying a steady process to the REIC is to help clean all this crap up. No more cash back at closing that created the Snowflakes of the world. No more duplicitous "your terms are 1% (until they go to 12%)" fine print that is causing so much of the current "my broker is a crook!" "Yeah well you signed the loan!" back and forth.

Get rid of the uniqueness of each transaction. Drain the swamp, as Ms. Pelosi likes to say.

bluto said...

Forcing banks to hold mortgages is a terrible idea. Banks have mostly demand deposits that fluctuate with short term interest rates. Mortgages are long term notes (with a very nasty prepayment option). You don't even want to see the math behind attempting to value them.

When banks held mortgages they were exceedingly rare or are ammortizing ARMs(as the are in most foreign nations today). Without repackaging there is no 30 year fixed rate note, because the bank is too exposed to rate changes to make it worth their while to offer.

The problems arose when due to the low interest rate environment, people started buying houses. Which reduced credit losses to essentially nil (which always torches off a credit cycle and ultimately is most of the way the Fed manages the economy--the gist of the idea is that by tightening banks compress credit sort of like a controlled burn in a forest).

However, because credit conditions had gone on so long, too much capital from outside the system jumped (securitized CMOs) on housing junk bonds and drove credit premiums way way too low. (Imagine trying a controlled burn in a former rain forest that has undergone an entire year of drought).

king friday the 13th said...

Bob Dawg,

I'm intrigued about the Honda Civic. Is it a hybrid I do know that used Prius's can go for more than new ones.


@ huck finn --
Valid points. I think it was a combination of both (underregulation + disintermediation). A lot of loan originators saw an oppertunity to make a quick buck (collect origination fees) and run (declare bankrupcy when the Casey Serins of the world got foreclosed on).
Any system that allows an unemployed 24 year old to get $2.2 million in mortgages is broken beyond repair.

But, adequate regulation is expensive. Think 10x's what is done today. Who will / should pay for it? In my approach, there is minimal regulation, and those with sterling credit get rewarded at the expense of the irresponsible.

So I gently ask: Can you (or anyone else here) do better?

Rob Dawg said...

Anonymous said...
How has your Honda Civic appreciated? I am no expert in automobile valuations and am shocked about that. I guess I should have been out buying Honda Civics all this time, could have made a fortune.


It hasn't appreciated so much as held value. There is no "investment" here as the manufacturers have effectively infinite supply. When we bought our Civic Ex new for mid 19s. supposedly it is still worth mid 19s 24k miles later. We still need to pay all the interim carrying costs. Just like houses.

You are absolutely correct about some cars increasing in value. The Mustang example is far from the rule. Some do increase… I have seen a gentleman I know turn some profit over the years buying and selling new exotic cars. Again, this is not the generally accepted rule.

Agreed, the exceptions.

Forgive my lack of knowledge of Mr. Fuller, but of what relevance his is Geodesic Dome? I am sure I am missing something and therefore can not make the connection. I am a fan of his stance on renewable/sustainable energy…have always been. Please help me make the connection.

Fuller was one of those one in a BILLION intellects. Jefferson, Edison, Fuller, Rutan. Not dissing the other greats of that period but acknowledging their unique greatness. Fuller once noted that if cars were built like houses they would cost hundreds of thousands, be totally dysfunctional and crappy. Sound familiar? This was something more than 60 years ago.

Huck Finn said...

What's more expensive - the system as it stands, or pumping money into a regulatory board who will introduce mortgage standards and regulations?

As it stands, this current housing crisis is no more than a blip on the radar. The Federal Reserve knows it's an issue, but they are more concerned about the economy on a broader level. If foreclosures continue to climb at the current rate, you can bet the Fed will step in at some point anyway...not so much to help the financial institutions who bought the mortgage, but to help the homeowners who have lost their home due to mortgages they couldn't afford.

Let's say their fix is to lower interest rates again to stimulate the housing economy and to help Joe Dirt buy a home again. If there are still no regulations in place, I think it's conceivable we'll go through a similar cycle.

I don't know what regulations should be put in place, but I do think the government has to intervene at some point.

Huck Finn said...

As far as who pay, it will be the people who take out loans when regulations are in force.

It may be in the form of a fee (part of closing costs) or a slightly higher interest rate.

I don't think it will be a fee subsidized by the whole United States - it will just be a usury fee.

man mortgage said...

The Linux model also does not apply to real estate because we'd all have to learn Swahili to read our contracts. When we asked for help we'd be told to RTFM, the M having been written in Klingon or Elvish.

Casey Fannnnn said...

Re:
>>Forgive my lack of knowledge of Mr. Fuller, but of what relevance his is Geodesic Dome? <<

Hey, just poppin in here, waiting for news of Casey's sex change and time-machine trip back to Nazi Germany to get accidentally fried in a oven... but I gotta say the above phrase bloo my mind. I is a humble college dropout, but I developed a reverence for Fuller a long time ago, way back in the early 70s. He is one of the big guys, and the famous dome is just a small part of his hugeness.

Anonymous said...

To Fannnnn

I am not discounting Bucky – I don’t think anyone could discern that from my post. I, not being a college drop out, was simply trying to make the connection drawn by Dawg.

You had mentioned the Dome was only a “small part of his hugeness”. I am just curious how you draw the connection and what, in your opinion, is the balance of his “hugeness”. Attempting to gain the perspective of others, that is all.

Thank you

Akubi said...

BTW Rob Dawg,
How did you end up meeting Fuller in person? What was he like?

Rob Dawg said...

Akubi,
Back in the early 80s I picked up an NBC press pass to photograph "colege" events. That was the Boston Punk Rock scene, and 'vard/MIT notables for file. No big deal, beer money. After a lecture at MIT he was unexpectedly available for press. A couple shots and like every giant he was interested in the young. Just a few quick back and forth questions. He asked a "test" quiz about the nature of tensegrity math and I wasn't dismissed after my answer. That meant I could stay and listen. He was a gentleman. Gentle. A man. I've been lucky to be allowed to bask in the aura of several such men (people). Don't let anyone fool you. They are different.

You ask what he was like. Crater Lake. A huge unique feature that by its prescence requires that we acknowlege its truths.

I've met others. They all share "great" but they all paint with great as differently as Rubens and Pollack.

CHJTS said...

You bunch of ninnies are arguing liek old hens.



Okay here is my .02 cents.

A car is personal property.

A house/land is Real Property.

A car depreciates.

A house appreciates.

You cannot deduct interest on personal property.

You can deduct interest on Real Property.

A house is payed for by a promissory note/mortage secured by a trust deed.

A car is payed for by a promissory note/installment contract secured by the personal property itself.

A house has to be foreclosed to take back.

A car since it is personal property can just be repossesed and taken.

Personal property and real property are seperate and are treated seperate in taxes and in law.

Now to get to the idea of why banks blah blah blah blah blah..hold there own mortgages blah blah blah blah.


One of the main functions of the federal banks in (I believe it is 7..could be 9 regions)..well in these regions..they funnel money around the country to where it is needed for housing.

In the before time, this didnt happen. So lets say there is a housing boom or housing desperately needed in florida...well it took almost an act of god to get the money down there and almost as much time from when god walked the earth to now.

The current system was designed to make the US money market more fluid and get the money that would normally be hoarded by the banks in florida, texas, You name it..to places that needed it like say seattle.

Now banks were leary of this at first so here comes fannie mae, freddie mac, ginnie may, etc etc etc. To guarantee these loans so the banks would put there money up on the line.



Now onto the equity skimmers....there are allot of sharks out there..(see my sub2 entry on caseypedia.com)

Now the majority of the get the deeders out there are all about the money and could give 2 shits about who they are ripping off under the guise of helping them.

They are looking for straight up distressed home owners and looking to line their pockets with zero regard to actually helping them.

I have known people that do this and they do quite well for themselves.

And I know some people that do this and they do quite well for themselves, but they actually help the home sellers and dont skim their equity even remotely as hard as someone else.

Sure they take a good chunk for themselves but they share it with the home owners..the exception to this is if the owner is upside down in the property and their is just no room for giving them anything.

I will go on record to say that I do not approve and do not condone sub2 acquisition of properties.

It is unethical, but illegal ...gray area.

It all came about when the lenders screamed and hollered for reform.

They wanted the DOS acceleration clause upon sale....guffawing, feet stamping, and lawsuits followed.

The bottom line...end result came about that yes..they got pretty much what they wanted..but in return they came up with the st. germaine act which allowed Living trusts for property to be passed on to heirs while avoiding probate and the inheritance taxes.

This is the area that sub 2 and equity skimmers exploit.

Casey Serin said...

Sure sure.

flailing forward said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

This real???

http://www.myebid.com/cgi-bin/auction/view?cmd=view&listingID=4046

Akubi said...

Anon,
If so, that's pretty cheap although I suspect FF is behind it;).

Dawg,
I guess you're not sharing the other greats to avoid name dropping...

flailing forward said...

It wasn't me. (although I suspect he may get a seller question or two from Nigeypoo)

Stephanie J. said...

I think this might provide some clue that it's not real:

iamfacingforeclosure.com is now for sale, the Feds are getting too close and I am fleeing back to Uzbekistan, it was fun why it lasted. Thanks everyone!

Stephanie J. said...

Casey flee to Uzbekistan? I very much doubt it. No Jamba Juice, or Macaroni Grill.

I'm English said...

Google now has IAFF as "IamFacingForeclosure.com is over. It will never return. Advertisers: Feel free to cancel your PayPal subscription. I will be issuing pro-rated refunds this ..." from 1 June. Soon Google will crawl over the blank page, and I wonder what it will show in a search result and how quickly such a blank page drops in the listings. Kinda interesting, unless your Casey.

Dumbfounded said...

Hey Casey, Great news! Contact this guy and you can start all over again...

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/rfs/344835559.html

Stephanie J. said...

@Dumbfounded
The frightening thing is that he probably would.

Dumbfounded said...

Steph J., Count on it. We know he reads this blog so I figure now it's just a matter of time.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Casey is handling his IAFF withdrawls? Hopefully, nobody will entice him to start it again.

-------------------------------------------

PAPA, PAPA, where are You? This is your 9-month old baby who is HUNGRY for content. Feed me, FEED ME before it's too late. Think of all of the sweet media that is going to another site.

[ Casey's nipples squirt out a little WheatGrass juice as he hears the above calling from baby ]

Anonymous said...

Rob Dawg, thank you for your interesting posts. The dialogue is also quite enjoyable. But it appears as if the "left over" Casey addicts are trying to hold this blog "hostage". kindly move over to Stephanie J's blog about their "Casey sightings". FF, I love you man but this is getting tired. FMW, start a Casey Haterz blog FFS. The "circus" atmosphere is bit distracting. Now, back to the discussion at hand, please.

Stephanie J. said...

The sad thing is; in my egotistical way, I'm bummed not because of just losing IAFF for new new material; but hell, some of my best comment material was on there (that wasn't deleted later on...).

The martyr and cross thing... That was classic, and the hand poised for slapping... it was timeless.

What a pity. :::sighs::::

Stephanie J. said...

Anon... that was a gross visualization. Thanks for scarring me for life... wheatgrass shooting nipples... BLEAHG!

Anonymous said...

Stephanie J, you edit all the bullshit from your blog beacuse it IS tiring. Why are you sujecting EN to what you don't condone on your blog. Its as if you don't want to get your kitchen dirty so you cook your chilly at a friends instead and splatter THEIR walls. Make a relevant comment to the post at hand or go back to your blog and "bitch" about Casey there. I happen to enjoy the EN take on "different" issues and Casey is NOT the ONLY news worthy material in "housing". I NEVER even post here, I feel enlightened JUST reading the discussions. But I had to let you know, everyone's life is not "all casey, all day and night."

@ Flailing

I enjoy your comments about Casey but I enjoy your comments related to the post even more. Flailing Rocks!

Sac RE Agent said...

Hey Rdawg, I agree that it would be nice if real estate transactions could be made simplier. I'm just lost on how it could happen. I'm not trying to defend the use of a Realtor and fees (so there's no need to go there) but in California two individuals can go to the County's Recorders office and process the paperwork for the sale of a home. It seems that it's all the extra stuff, disclosures, etc., that leave one open to potential lawsuits, etc.. But if you're thinking there should be a few simple ways of buying/selling, it then becomes an issue of what methods of financing and what potential terms do you wish to make illegal? Do you not wish to have sellers disclose all material issues with their homes? No more RE agents, only lawyers can process paperwork?

Believe me, I would like to see the process streamlined though with California being so sue happy, it going to be difficult.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

FMW, start a Casey Haterz blog
-------------
NO, I agree with you about moving on. I think the weenie and cheese whiz flame thing was hilarious, and I was offering a fresh blogger face to laugh about. Some one else just as deserving of all of the great humor and brilliance on this blog, IMO. I was off base with the readers here, obviously, but still love them all.

I love Steph's and FF, Huck's Posts.

Dawgs too.

OH, Too many to name, but I will be a daily, over my coffee, lurker more than a poster for a while till I find my stride as EN evolves.

I do not hate anyone, just to set the record straight, I come here to sIt at my computer and laugh out loud at this crew and really learn things new.

Get a handle.

Anonymous said...

At Anon 3:54…

I couldn’t agree with you more. I thoroughly enjoy the wit and intelligence of the readers and Dawg himself. I have very rarely posted on this blog as I felt it’s true potential had been lost to a childish game of “First” and “Murst”. I (incorrectly) assumed that the Casey saga winding down would open up the doors for more productive and intellectual discussions. Please do not misunderstand me, the IAFF train wreck provided me with countless hours of entertainment…but it was just that – entertaining. This community (EN) has a lot more to offer than some colorful banter about the failure of a kid.

I enjoyed this thread and sincerely look forward more….

@ Casey Fannnn 12:29

As I had mentioned in my initial response to you, I am ONLY trying to gain knowledge though the perspective of others… please tell me (in your opinion) what the balance of Mr. Fuller’s

Thank you

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
flailing forward said...

@ anon 3:36
Sorry buddy, but if there's one thing I've learned from IAFF, it's to do the exact opposite of whatever one's critics suggest. Besides, I've barely even commented since the last Casey thread and neither has FMW. IAFF only died five days ago, so don't you think it's wishful thinking to expect everybody to forget about Casey already? We're grieving, man. If he stays gone, things will gradually die down and EN will go back to normal.

Anyway, what's kept me here at EN is the community. I like all the different perspectives. And I like to laugh, and you people never let me down. As far as I'm concerned, the more interesting people that are here, the better, so please stop trying to chase people off.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stephanie J. said...

@Anon
::rolls eyes::

I have no problem with chili splatters, honeybun. But, until Rob Dawg draws the line, then what you're puffing is hot air.

This is his blog after all. If he tells me stop, then I'll stop answering posts from other Haterz, which is what I've done today (except to ask Haterz to fill out a poll on MY blog). I have an open forum where they can come over and spout as much anti-Casey rhetoric they desire. But Rob has not expressed any need for us to go away; so as long as Rob is okay with it, then you'll have to deal with it.

So stop whining.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Anyway, what's kept me here at EN is the community. I like all the different perspectives. And I like to laugh, and you people never let me down. As far as I'm concerned, the more interesting people that are here, the better, so please stop trying to chase people off.
________________
@FF,
EXACTLY AND YEP.

Anonymous said...

Flailing forward 4:33

I agree with you… no one should be chased off – I am for diversity of opinion, it has always been the best way for one to grab a handle on the truth. I think the general idea ANON 3:36 was striving for was this has been a very interesting chat about a very interesting subject, delightfully void of Casey Serin. I enjoy the opinions and posts from all the members of this community, including you…

Thank you

Anonymous said...

I think we need to realize that we took in 9 months of Casey BS, so in all fairness, it should take another 9 months PLUS INTEREST to wind down.

It's only fair.

Now, getting back to Casey with nipples squirting out WheatGrass as baby IAFF calls out for PAPA. What that funny or what?

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Just do not turn on each other!!!

lawnmower man said...

Oh dear God: could all you Anonymouses please adopt distinct pseudonyms rather than all taking the lazy option?

It'd avoid confusion and it'd give your arguments a bit more weight.

In particular, it's more than a little presumptuous to be telling the regulars what they should and should not be doing when you have no discernible history here yourself; and when you can't even be bothered to spend the few seconds it takes to think up a name.

JMHO.

As for Casey: I'm fairly sure he'll be back in some form. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear him calling into CHJTS's talkcast.

flailing forward said...

@ anon 4:44
That was damn funny.

Michelle said...

I was going to transcribe the last two callers from the fraudcast, but after the first of the two. I'm a little burned out. Maybe I'll do the other one tomorrow.

___________


CS: Alright, let’s see if we can pick up anymore here. Ok, we’ve got people that have already had a chance to talk. So I’ll do one more round unless some new blood comes on, otherwise we’ll close it down. Uh, we’ll go with HeyCasey again.

HC: Hey, Casey?

CS: Yeah.

HC: Yeah, so I know I already talked. But I was just wondering, what is your plan exactly for the next six months? I mean, I know you said you have a few things planned in terms of looking for a job?

CS: This whole thing just happened. I’m looking at a few options. Back when I few sent out an email to everyone about the ultimatum… actually, I got a lot of… people were offering me jobs, different kinds of work. Now I just have to go back and kind of…

HC: Have you actually followed up with anything? Have you followed up with any of those people, or have those emails just been sitting there stagnant?

CS: What happened is I got such a huge influx and I chose to focus on the sponsors and advertisers because that was the quickest money. I mean, all I had to do was put up an ad and they’re paying me money. So it was really good…

HC: That’s another thing. With the advertisers on your website, have you refunded any money yet? Or are you waiting for them to contact you?

CS: Oh, yeah. I’m in the process of refunding. I sent emails to every single one of them, and I’m willing to do a pro-rated refund. I’m asking them, “Hey, what do you feel I should refund you?”. So I’m making sure I’m treating everybody fairly.

HC: Now, did you already take your money out of your PayPal account when you received, what what is it? $2,500 or so?

CS: Well, um. I took out $1,000, remember? To make that goal, to put it on the table.

HC: Yeah, I understand that. But there was more than $1,000 in your PayPal account.

CS: I left it in there. I only made like one or two purchases, and then I put the thousand back in there in order to refund all the money. Unfortunately, I’m going to come down to that I have no money left after this.

HC: So what did you end up doing with that $1,000? I’m just curious.

CS: Nothing, and I’m glad I didn’t because now it comes in hand for refunding the sponsors. We spent a little bit, I think like twenty or forty bucks. We went with the family on Labor Day weekend we went boating at Folsom Lake [mumbles] so we pitched in for gas and food.

HC: Right. So have you started actually looking for anything in terms of going to Monster or CareerBuilder or anything like that?

CS: I’ve been starting to look into my emails. Those are offers that were made to me already, so I’m going to consider those first.

HC: So, to clarify, you haven’t actually applied for any jobs? That’s what I’m asking you. Because I think the contract said to start applying for jobs as soon as the website went down, which I believe was yesterday night or sometime around then, right?

CS: Um, if the contract said to start applying for jobs right away and you think I broke it, then that’s the opinion you have. That’s what you’re saying.

HC: Well, you were saying that you were re-writing the contract with your wife as you were going along. Were the witnesses, because I think there were a couple of signatures, I don’t remember exactly, but there were a couple of signatures on that contract. Were the witnesses aware that you were redoing the contract with your wife?

CS: Well, yeah. We’ve been talking about this. I mean, not everything. What are we going to do. Call everyone in for every change? Because…

HC: That’s the point of a contract.

CS: What was that?

HC: That’s the point of a contract, so that everyone is aware that you’re legally bound…

CS: First off, having a contract between husband and wife is really stupid to begin with.

HC: Exactly, and that’s the situation you’ve gotten yourself into. You’re saying it’s a stupid situation that you had to draw up a contract with your wife so you would perform your husbandly duties.

CS: Sure, yeah. So… it’s served its purpose…

HC: So wouldn’t you have to, since you hold your marriage so sacred, wouldn’t have to try and stick with the original terms of the contract and not have to try and rewrite history?

CS: We’re just modifying things as needed, so…

HC: What do you mean, “as needed”? So you can put up a goodbye statement on your website?

CS: Yeah…

HC: I mean, originally the contract said to put up a blank page. Which I think for you would have been the most therapeutic thing to do… to close the thing down and walk away. But you came back and…

CS: … I put up a blank page and…

HC: Right, you put up a blank page and you added and you added and you added…

CS: No, no it’s not like that…

HC: … It’s like an addiction for you…

CS: You’re basically telling me I violated the contract, are we…

HC: You violated the contract so many times, you’re already referring to your wife over and over. Does she even know that you’re on this call?

CS: She does not know I’m on the phone. Actually, we talked about it. She may, or she may not…

HC: She may know or she may not? Which one is it?

CS: Let me explain, it sounds like I don’t even know what I’m saying. We talked about it, she might be hearing it right now. And we’ll just go from there.

HC: So are you at your sister-in-law’s house right now?

CS: No, I am not.

HC: Where are you right now?

CS: I’m at a [mumbles].

HC: I’m sorry, a private?

CS: No, I’m at a friend’s place.

HC: I don’t mean to pry, but have you been kicked out of the house, or…

CS: No.

HC: Because, I hate to say it, but you sound kind of down.

CS: Well, I am down. I was tweaking with my away message, and I was saying how it felt like I killed my nine month old baby.

HC: Yeah, that was another thing I wanted to bring up. Because that’s got to not sit well with your wife where your referring to what should have been a hobby as your nine month old baby.

CS: Well, it’s something that became an income producing business for me. It’s been a very rewarding experience to work on something for nine months and then it’s finally paying off.

HC: Now I’ve got to honestly ask you. You say that it’s been nine months of work, how much income do you think you’ve made after you’ve done all your refunds? Do you think that nine months of work is actually worth what you’ve done? Because what I from the contacts is only what you’ve been telling us about. So I don’t know 100% what’s going on. But it seems to me like you just wasted nine months of your life blogging. Granted, you’ve gotten hundreds of thousands of hits, but it doesn’t seem to me like you’ve produced much income from this.

CS: Well, that’s a fair assessment. Income is not the only benefit I got from it. I got …

HC: I mean, when you have $2.something million in mortgage debt, I would think producing income would be right up there with your number one priority.

CS: Ok.

HC: I know you’re situation really sucks, but I have to say you really dropped the ball, man. I mean, especially with Duane. I forgot, what was it, six grand a month or something like that? It was a full-time job and you turned it down? We haven’t heard anything else with what happened with that, but …

CS: You know, I was going to tell my side of the story, but it’s all been said and done. It’s not even worth it. Plus, people are not going to believe me anyway.

HC: Well, we’d love to hear it, even though the blog is shutdown. Your wife is way more important than something on the Internet, because ..

CS: Between my baby and my wife, I have to chose my wife.

HC: You’re just a flash in the pan…

CS: This isn’t a real baby. My only attachment… [mumble] I have to realize that maybe I’ve been holding on to it too much.

HC: My only advice for you in the near future is that you don’t resent your wife for what happened. Because your fifteen minutes were up as it was…

CS: The thing is, people misunderstand me all the time. I resent and hate the fact that it got to the point where I had to make a decision. I understand that she had good intentions, too. She didn’t want to have to choose between me and having a mistress, quote unquote, between us.

HC: Right, I don’t know how involved she was in everything that you were up to, but unfortunately all you guys have is each other. And if you screw that up, at that point you have nothing. So you need to work on it. Hopefully you don’t hear from the FBI. You’re going to hear from the IRS, unless you actually go through and pay your taxes. I wish the best of luck you, man. You’re in a seriously screwed up situation and I hope it works out for you. But from what I’ve been reading and what I’ve been seeing, it doesn’t look like you’re going to be able to pull through with it.

CS: Well, thanks for that negative outlook, man.

HC: Yeah, no problem.

CS: See you later…. Guess I’m not going to be able to pull out of this one. That’s very good parting words. But that’s fine.

Your friend, The Scroll Bar said...

Hi everybody! I'm the scroll bar and I'm your friend. I'm located on the right side of your screen and I allow you to skip comments that you don't want to read. I am an unavoidable part of the unthreaded blogging experience.

Little known fact: using me actually takes less time than it takes to comment anonymously telling everyone else to stop commenting.

Anonymous said...

Oh my goodness, look at this segment:

"CS: Between my baby and my wife, I have to chose my wife."

Noticed the "I have to" not "I want to".

Man, this is the first time I felt sorry for Galina Serin. She is a crook, but Casey is one low down SOB.

Yulina, you need to help your sister.

segfault said...

segfault's US political primer:

Part 1 (of 1, so far): People have a short memory. A few years ago, everyone wanted Obama's head on a platter because he nuked the World Trade Center. Now, they want him to run for President.

Milton's Ghost said...

So Casey took the $1000, "put it on the table", they spent $40 or something on a holiday, then Casey deposited the remainder in his paypal account?

That's bizarre. $1000 "put on the table" should be $1000 paid to Galina. After it's been put on the table it's not supposed to be in Casey's control anymore.

And I love how Casey said it's stupid to have a contract between husband and wife. I guess this is how he justifies breaking it and modifying it.

This is Casey Serin:

1. Sign
2. Read
3. Violate
4. Weasel out of it.

Step 2 is optional.

ha38349 said...

A cynical person would view this new prohibition on foreclosure ‘rescue’ schemes as an attempt by the mortgage holders to grab whatever equity there is for themselves. But the end result is going to be the same either way. Folks that are in a house they can not afford are going to lose in the end.

Anonymous said...

They could afford it before the ARM kicked in.

Casey Serin said...

Haterz:

I only have a few minutes - am using the computer at the public library. I'm trying to find away to keep the blog alive.

Have you seen the stories on the "Save Jericho" campaign... CBS cancelled the show, so the viewers are sending tons of nuts to the network.

I was thinking, if you guys sent $$ to Galina, she might let me go back to running the blog.

I have a newly updated site: http://serin.us/

You can e-mail me at casey@serin.us

And, of course, www.ablebuyer.com is still up.

If you miss seeing the blog, some of it has been stored here: http://www.theandricgroup.com/iamfacingforeclosure/

If you miss my face - check out the sweet photo of me with Galina here: http://www.thedigeratilife.com/blog/index.php/2007/06/04/get-a-job-says-wife-then-his-money-blog-closes-down-so-whats-next-for-casey-serin/

Remember, the phone number is 1-916-595-9632 - call me anytime.

Gotta run - Galina's wants to go out to dinner - some quality couple time.

lawnmower man said...

That's not Casey. Casey has a Blogger account.

And theandricgroup's mirror is awful: no comments, very few of the posts, and the timestamps are all wrong...

H Simpson said...

If anyone ought to have so type of liability insurance, maybe it is the brokers so that they have skin in the game. A bank can go under if their asset base is readjusted downward. A broker?
Next week he can be selling patio furiture if his company was structured correctly from the outset.

My 1st loan was at 17% (Thanks Jimmie Carter you nitwit). Every other year as the rates started to come down I would refinance. Some companies were hard to deal with. GMAC (the Ditech forerunner) sent me 358 coupons after a bank sold my 30 year mortgage to them. Like the taxes would never go up.

After that, I always checked what percentage of loans a bank services. They have to tell you. I go with a bank that retains their loans and there is someone you can talk to. I found a great S&L that I have done a couple homes with. I was always willing to trade a quarter point on the rate for service.

Push comes to shove, I can stop by the main office on the way to the yacht club. Talk directly with the manager. get the straight answer pronto. Quarter point is cheap when it comes to sleeping well at night.

But many borrowers today have a Walmart mentality. They do not appreciate service or product features. They look for price and who can they can borrow the most from.

Maybe that is because to them, a loan is a short term "deal" and used to help finance the property for a flip. Very different from a homeowner that wants to stay in the home for long time.

So I have trouble saying we have 1 rule. Heck, there are different rules in a given state. When I lived in Mass, I had 1 house with rules that came from the King of England because it was "registered" land 250 years ago.

What we are seeing is kneejerk reactions.

In Mass, 2 months ago they passed a law that gave someone who was going to get foreclosed on an extra 90 days (as we like to say, to save up security deposits and 1st month's rent). Looks like some evils SOBs figured such paniced homeowners were easy prey.


OMG, it looks like we are giving advice to people who in foreclosure. Do you think we need to set up a conference all and charge $39 to an answer?

ha38349 said...

H Simpson said...
My 1st loan was at 17% ...

My first mortgage was at 18% for 30 years (1982)

lawnmower man said...

@Michelle: your transcript wikified at CaseyPedia -- good stuff.

Any other transcriptions also gratefully received -- you don't have to be a CaseyPedia editor, you can just dump 'em here and CaseyPedia will pick them up and give full credit.

king friday the 13th said...

>>Do you think we need to set up a conference call and charge $39 to an answer?

$39 will barely cover a Jamba Juice.

I snicker everytime I pass by a Jamba Juice.

Or a Macaroni Grill.

Or a white Jetta.

Or when queen sarah told me she liked Snapdragons.

sigh. good times.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Urgent OT News: Holy Shitaki Shrooms, Haterz!!!!!!!
Get Gas tomorrow. A cat 5 Hurricane is heading for the Straights of Hormuz, land fall Wednesday evening or Thursday.
A Hurricane in The Middle east? Un heard of.
They are trying to get the oil tankers out of the way.
Have a look;
http://roccland.blogspot.com/

Akubi said...

Unfortunately, there seemed to be a problem with the voting mechanism on the 6 Degrees of Casey Serin™ to Chairman Mao Win-Win Winner! It seems to be fixed now if you’d care to try again…

Rob Dawg said...

roccland is just a beard for dieoff.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

@ Dawg,
Yes he is extreme, but this post is amazing, and true.

dumbfounded said...

@ akubi - Yes. It is MUCH better now. Thanks!

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

A Cat 5 is 200 mph, Katrina was a cat 3. These desert dwellers have never had a hurricane! I live in Florida and know what to do. Why hasen't MSM picked up this story????

Murses said...

A Cat 5 is 200 mph, Katrina was a cat 3. These desert dwellers have never had a hurricane! I live in Florida and know what to do. Why hasen't MSM picked up this story????


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L04279107.htm

http://www.gdacs.org/reports.asp?eventType=TC&ID=GONU&system=asgard&alertlevel=Green&glide_no=&location=

http://www.surfersvillage.com/surfing/28228/news.htm

Anonymous said...

since Casey's blog is dead, and stuff can we all try and get to the bottom of who/what Homey Da Clown is/was?

thats my biggest mystery and what really keeps me coming back to this website

Lou Minatti said...

FWIW, I just received an e-mail from Casey.

Schnapps said...

Are you going to share, Lou? :)

king friday the 13th said...

Chinese stock exchange (Shanghai Red Chips) down another 5% -- 20% over last 4 days.

Notce the Shanghai market started crashing when Casey shut down his blog.

Coincidence? I think not...

Rob Dawg said...

King XIII,
I've been watching carefully. You may recall my post a week ago that mentioned the risk.

Disclosure I have Gold and 10yrT futures positions.

Jerry Mander said...

Hi guys

Sorry to be off topic - but wasn't R-Boy going to post something regarding an email from Homey today? Did I miss it? Errm yeah - I haven't let the whole Casey thing go yet. Plus - I just can't there won't be legal ramifications for his actions. It's killing me. Especially cause I still rent.

king friday the 13th said...

rob,

yeah I did. If a crash in China doesn't bring the DOW down, nothing will.

disclosure: I have gold, silver, ammo, and whisky positions. :-)

Then, again, the last two ensure sh*ts and giggles regardless of whether the world ends or not.

ratlab said...

@Rob

I can't figure out when the market is going to significantly give back the gains of the last 2 months. Good news, bad news, it doesn't matter.

Disclosure, I unwound my 1K in EMC. I was in purely for the play on the VMWare spin-off, but the stock has met my price target already. I'll go back in if it goes under $16-1/4.

Stephanie J. said...

@Lou
What'd he say?

Milton's Ghost said...

From


The Serinn : New Boutique Hotel Opens in Cappadocia


Quote: "In Turkish, "Serin" means "cool temperature"; indeed, the ancient volcanic rock of the caves, "tuffa", acts as the perfect insulation retaining a temperature of 17 - 20 degrees Celsius throughout the year, meaning it is comfortably cool in the summer and warm in the winter."

Jokes to follow ...

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

@ Murses,
Do you keep a Doppler RADAR in your Man Bag.
Thanks.
(0;

R-Boy said...

Jerry,

I forwarded it to Rob. I though he might use it for a post.

If he doesn't or doesn't want to, I can post it up under a casey thread when one occurs. There's not extreme meati-ness but its something neat, and ive got permission to post it.

Of course, Id also like to finish out the duane story

H Simpson said...

Rereading my reply, I think I gave details, but not my main point. Doh!!!!

For decades everyone said houses were a good investment. Mainly because until companies trashed pensions and went to 401Ks, w-2 loosers did not need to worry about investments. It was the thing they paid instead of rent, and by the time time they retired, it was paid off.

Now we have people who have taken that statement and think their abode is a money market account with termites and ATM privs.

Leverage, flipping, cash back etc. That is Wall Street trade and not Main Street.

The rules of ownership were not as complex as the stock market because nobody expected these get rich quick numbnuts to pull this one.

If we can get people to buy homes for the right reason, a lot of these ills should go away. A lot of folks are going to get an expensive education, Casey included. Only they don't get a diploma when it is through.

Mouse And Pencil said...

Ditto on the conclusion to the Duane story, you left us at the peak of his story!

Murses said...

You never know what I'll have laying around! Chapstick...gum...eye drops...PDA...dopplar radar...cell phone...anti-anxiety drugs...organic, semi-vegan power bar...

I could pull just about anything out of my hat.